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    Transition to SFL

    I'm wondering how the transition to SFL has gone for your kids. Is it a big jump, or was it pretty seamless? My daughter is really struggling with the work for SFL this year. Last year she did FFL with me and the DVDs at home, and then did a review accelerated FFL over the summer during an in person class and really did well. I don't know if maybe she relied to much on looking at her text book, but this year the instructor with MPOA said for them to not look at their book (which makes sense!) while completing the workbook and she is stuck. Just now we were trying to finish up some work from last week and she was in tears so I sent her on a bike ride to clear her head a little.

    I'm at a loss, I don't know if I should have her go back through FFL (although 3 times seems a little much), or if I just need to have her push through and get into a routine with MPOA? This is our first year with MPOA and we are still working out the kinks in the system. It hasn't been as seamless as I was hoping it would be. This is only her second week with MPOA and I admit we are still trying to find our footings with assignments and schedules for that. I think I am going to sit down tonight and get everything written in so we are ready for the new week. Hopefully this will be the week we figure out the MPOA schedules and get that into our routine.

    Or if it's just her age, 11 is hard, and she is doing 6M for all of her subjects.

    I would love some insight from others who have transitioned to SFL and how it went for you! Thanks!
    ~Michelle

    DD 12 (MP 7)
    DS 9 (Gap Year)
    DS 4 - Preschool
    DD 2 - Board Books and Chaos

    #2
    I taught SFL to my son last year (he was in 6M, as well) and his transition from FFL to SFL was pretty seamless. We did not use the MPOA - I taught the lessons at home without using the videos. He did to the FFL review workbook over the summer to keep the material fresh in his mind.

    Unless your daughter really struggled with FFL, I don't think you ought to repeat it again this year. Instead, I think I would speak to her teacher. I don't recall seeing in the teacher notes OR hearing at the SFL intensive last year that students should never look back in their books to be sure they're completing their homework correctly. Perhaps there's been a misunderstanding?

    FYI: At our house, my kids generally to try to answer what they're able to without the book, then go back and look up or double check anything they're not quite sure about (or they'll come to me to ask for clarification, if needed). In my mind, assignments are not tests or quizzes. That is, students may need to revisit the material - especially early on in the week - to be sure it's cemented as they complete their worksheets. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much need for a text.

    I'm sure others will chime in with their experiences - especially those who have taken SFL thorugh the MPOA.


    Mary

    DD15 - 9th core + CLRC Ancient Greek I & Latin IV + VideoText math
    DS12 - 7th core + Novare Earth Science + CLRC HS Latin I + VideoText math
    DD8 - SC level 2

    Comment


      #3
      I’ve taken three through Second Form. The translation was always smooth. We hit big bumps going into Third Form.
      Move never heard to do the workbook without using the text! I’m really hoping an MP Latin guru chimes in because that sounds crazy to me. The whole point of the workbook is to practice the new material and how can they do that if they can’t use their book! The web is supposed to help them memorize not test if they already memorized it. I do get why they would stress to not have to look back at past chapters that should have been memorized. Much like we want our kids to have their multiplication tables memorized instead of always using a chart. It’s faster. You will really get stuck in Third Form if First and Second vocabulary isn’t mastered. Ask me how I know!
      I absolutely let my kids use the text to do the work on the new material. I make them try to not use the dictionary in the back or the grammar charts for old material but if they are stuck I let them look. The only time they can’t use their text is on quizzes and tests. When we get to review lessons, I want them to do those without their text but I do allow them to look if they get stuck.
      We never did MPOA or DVDs for Forms though so maybe I’m doing it wrong. But what we do seems to be working. I can’t imagine the stress of having to completely memorize all the new vocabulary and forms in one sitting and then do exercises on those without being able to look. No wonder it’s been a hard transition!
      Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
      DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
      DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
      DS, 21, chemistry major
      DS, 18, Physics major
      DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
      DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
      DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

      Comment


        #4
        I taught SFL to my kids when they were 11 (girl) and 12 (boy). For us, and I think for many, the big hurdle has been Third, not Second, Form - both because of some tougher topics and because there are more worksheets to complete for each lesson. So with your girls it could have more to do with having a teacher who's not you, with expectations and a way of working that are still unfamiliar. And Mary is right: the workbook exercises, or at least a good chunk of them, are even supposed to be done all together, teacher and students. To be honest, I haven't done the Form books this way: I teach the lesson, then give my kids the time to study it and memorize the vocabulary; only then they take the the workbook out and complete it on their own (although I still do some guided translations together, to make sure the process of analyzing a sentence is clear in their heads, and they form good habits.) So I do expect them to know the words used in the exercises, but I still let them use the dictionary if they really need to. I think it's in the teaching guidelines as well: the more you're confident with many words, the less time you have to "waste" leafing through the dictionary. But that's just the words: while they're working on the workbook the textbook is not there, and I don't let them go back to it to check a rule they've forgotten, (or neglected to memorize) or a conjugation they're limping through: they need to learn to use their study time wisely and effectively! I will of course answer any questions they have.
        So again I agree with Mary: I would write to the teacher, and ask him to explain again his expectations, so your daughter can adapt, and you can make sure her study schedule for SFL satisfies those expectations: all MPOA teachers we've met are super friendly!
        Last edited by Mrs Bee; 09-22-2019, 04:02 PM.
        DS (14)
        DD (13)
        DS (6)

        Comment


          #5
          momgineer - I don't think you're doing it wrong. Sounds like we use very similar methods. For the subjects I teach, I give the lesson, we discuss/ask questions, maybe do some sample problems, and then the kids do their assigned pages through the week - using the book for assistance as needed.

          And I agree with Mrs Bee . Though we have not done Latin through the MPOA, my kids have taken several other MPOA classes. The teachers are very kind and very willing to entertain questions/clarify information whenever needed. I am sure there's been a misunderstanding and that the teacher will be more than happy to straighten this out.

          I really hope your dd grows to love SFL once this all gets settled! :-)
          Mary

          DD15 - 9th core + CLRC Ancient Greek I & Latin IV + VideoText math
          DS12 - 7th core + Novare Earth Science + CLRC HS Latin I + VideoText math
          DD8 - SC level 2

          Comment


            #6
            https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum...with-materials

            in this thread Tanya says the book can be used to complete the workbook.

            We have had 8 Latin classes with MPOA plus one with another provider and have yet to have anyone say not to use the text when completing the workbook. You are not allowed to use the text for quizzes. I would confirm with the teacher as it is possible he or she misspoke or was misunderstood. I would not recommend going back to first form....just keep up the grammar question and first form review. Check out post #13 from Jen
            https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum...-helpful-hacks
            Dorinda

            For 2020-2021
            DD 17-12th with MPOA(Classical Studies 3), CLRC (Latin 6, Greek 5), Thinkwell (Calculus and Chemistry), Vita Beata (Divine Comedy), American History
            DS 15-9th with Lukeion(Latin 1 and Greek 1), Vita Beata (9th Literature)
            DS 12-7th with Right Start Level H online class, Vita Beata (6th Literature)
            DS 6 - 2nd blazing our own trail with Right Start D and a mix of MP materials

            Comment


              #7
              Good evening Michelle,

              As several other moms have reassured you, it is perfectly normal and appropriate to use the Student Text as a reference for new material. Of course, the text will ideally be needed less and less as the week progresses and the new vocabulary and grammar forms are cemented, but it does not need to be locked away outside of quizzes and tests.

              Debbie's comparison to multiplication tables is perfect, for in both math and Latin, we are looking for that instant-recall level of mastery when it comes to the foundation (basic math facts, Latin grammar forms and vocabulary). In the long run, a student who must constantly refer to a multiplication chart or who must look up every single Latin word in the appendix will quickly become overwhelmed and despair, believing himself to be bad at the subject when in fact he never received a solid foundation. It is only at this late point that constant reliance on a text would be considered a crutch and a negative. While the student is still learning new material, an accurate text is an essential tool that can and should be utilized. I would follow-up with the MPOA teacher for clarification. As others have noted, this is hopefully a simple case of miscommunication and/or misunderstanding.

              HTH!
              Michael
              Memoria Press

              Comment


                #8
                Michelle,
                Others have addressed the Latin issue, and I am in total agreement with all of them. You need to get some clarity on the actual instruction about the book being used to do the workbook. That seems to go against the MO grain. As long as she keeps up the diligent work habits she had to do well in FFL, she should not have any trouble getting through SFL too.

                I wanted to address your your question about the possibility of it being an “11 year old” thing, and in this case, I want to reassure you things are probably just fine. My kids always seem to become emotional for a time when they are adjusting to something new, which could very well be raising the emotional bar for a brief bit of time while she is getting used to MPOA. I would expect things to be fine after another week or two.

                The big emotional stages with girls in our experience has been the 9 year old year (feeling in the middle zone between little girl and big girl) and the 12 year old year (time of vulnerable awkwardness). Once these are weathered, seems to be a lot better. HTHs!

                AMDG,
                Sarah
                2020-2021
                16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
                DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
                DS, 16
                DD, 14
                DD, 12
                DD, 10
                DD, 8
                DD, 6
                +DS+
                DS, 2

                Comment


                  #9
                  You guys are the best! I had always heard of the struggle from SFL to third form, which was why I was so concerned that she was struggling so much with second form. I may have jumped the ship a bit to early with Latin for her, but I needed one teacher intensive class off my plate. I may reconsider though and restructure how we are doing it.

                  I am going to email the teacher to get some additional clarification, but I no longer am going to require her to put the text away when working through the workbook. No wonder she was getting frustrated! I was concerned I hadn't prepared her adequately last year by allowing her to use the text while completing her assignments. I had been having her go through and do what she could without the text, and then change to a different color to fill in the rest so she knew what needed to be studied. Tomorrow will hopefully be a much brighter day for Latin around here.

                  I did hear him say something about trying to complete the workbook exercises without using the text in the open house, which is why I was enforcing it, but perhaps it is a goal for the end of the year when they should have the bulk of it mastered. It could also just be a goal, and not necessarily a practical everyday practice.
                  ~Michelle

                  DD 12 (MP 7)
                  DS 9 (Gap Year)
                  DS 4 - Preschool
                  DD 2 - Board Books and Chaos

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If you have only been at it for a week maybe he was referring to the fact that it was a review lesson and they should try to see how much they can do without the book.
                    Dorinda

                    For 2020-2021
                    DD 17-12th with MPOA(Classical Studies 3), CLRC (Latin 6, Greek 5), Thinkwell (Calculus and Chemistry), Vita Beata (Divine Comedy), American History
                    DS 15-9th with Lukeion(Latin 1 and Greek 1), Vita Beata (9th Literature)
                    DS 12-7th with Right Start Level H online class, Vita Beata (6th Literature)
                    DS 6 - 2nd blazing our own trail with Right Start D and a mix of MP materials

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Mom2mthj View Post
                      If you have only been at it for a week maybe he was referring to the fact that it was a review lesson and they should try to see how much they can do without the book.
                      This is my guess. I'm teaching SF this year and I have my students use the Student Text as a matter of course in the first few days of the work week. By about day 4 they should be solid and only looking up things they haven't mastered (usually from previous lessons, not the lesson at hand, ironically). By Friday that week of work should be mastered and the Oral Drill and Quiz should both be executed well without the book. What you miss on the Quiz goes onto your "I need to master this" list to keep working on in future weeks IN ADDITION to whatever new things you are learning. In my view the four days of work are how you actually learn the material each week. I think Dorinda's guess is right about that first lesson (and then the other three FF review lessons sprinkled through the book) should be "closed book" since they are supposed to know those words.

                      Please keep us posted!
                      Festina lentē,
                      Jessica P

                      2020-2021
                      11th year HSing · 9th year MP
                      @ Home, HLN, & Latin online
                      11th, 9th, 6th, 3rd

                      Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

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