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    Another placement question?

    My son turned 9 in July. He is one that always wants his hand held. My husband wants to start him in Memoria Press this year. Would you do accelerated 3rd or 4th for New Users?
    Abel (9) MP 4/ Lydia 7.5) MP A3/ James (6) First Start Reading and Rod and Staff 1/ Micah (4)/ Nathanael (2)/ Silas Born 7/13/2019

    #2
    The differences between the two is mostly math, Spelling and composition. The lit is different but similar in level. So I’d pick based on math and spelling level. If he is in 3rd grade level for math and spelling do 3A. If he is in 4th grade for those do 4NU.
    Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
    DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
    DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
    DS, 21, chemistry major
    DS, 18, Physics major
    DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
    DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
    DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by momgineer View Post
      The differences between the two is mostly math, Spelling and composition. The lit is different but similar in level. So I’d pick based on math and spelling level. If he is in 3rd grade level for math and spelling do 3A. If he is in 4th grade for those do 4NU.
      We are using Rod and Staff 4 for all of them, but he has never really done formal composition. As far as math he hasn't completely mastered his multiplication and division, so I plan on taking it slow. I think Spelling Workout may be more advanced than Rod and Staff; I am not sure how they compare. When he was seven we did Memoria Press 2nd grade. Last year we did things completely in Charlotte Mason approach, so no formal spelling or grammar, or writing. We also tried Right Start Math, which for us was a fail.
      Abel (9) MP 4/ Lydia 7.5) MP A3/ James (6) First Start Reading and Rod and Staff 1/ Micah (4)/ Nathanael (2)/ Silas Born 7/13/2019

      Comment


        #4
        I think you would be fine to go ahead and use the 4NU for him - but it sounds like you might want to ease yourselves into it. I would not expect to go at full steam for at least two to three weeks. I would definitely take two weeks to do the first week, and then potentially even do another two weeks for one week after that. Having missed the transition to third grade, he will be facing a big jump in workload...not just from MP's Second, but from also having a year with less formal work. Give yourself and him plenty of time and keep in mind that this is a journey not a race - do each thing one at a time, and strive to make progress, you know?

        You said he was doing 4th grade math, but did not completely master his facts...did he actually complete Rod and Staff 3, or did you place him into 4th after trying RightStart and thinking that was a good placement?

        If he did not actually complete the 3rd grade book (and this is true for your daughter too) then I would definitely go back and have them do that book first. It's fine to go quickly if that's the pace your kids need. But it's much harder if you skip and leave gaps behind. There really should not be a need to take a slow pace with any of the R & S books if they have had the preparation they need to be in each one.

        AMDG,
        Sarah
        2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
        DD, 19, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
        DS, 16
        DD, 14
        DD, 12
        DD, 10
        DD, 8
        DD, 6
        +DS+
        DS, 2

        Comment


          #5
          SWO is not more advanced than R&S, in my humble opinion once you reach the 4th grade R&S book. If you have been using R&S and having success, stay with it. MP used to use R&S Spelling but switched to SWO some years ago for (I can't remember why) reasons. If you call the MP office, they can sell you the original R&S Spelling and English plans.

          If you do decide to go back through the R&S 3 math book, may I suggest skipping the first 40 or so lessons that review addition and subtraction? I made the mistake of not doing so with my daughter last year and now she refuses to even LOOK at a R&S math book. (Thankfully, she enjoys Saxon!) An alternate idea is to quickly scan through those lower lessons and cover just the things you feel the kids need.

          You can always switch out the SWO level to the lower one, if needed. MP uses SWO one grade level ahead to begin with so the 4NU is the SWO 5 book.

          Not having any composition experience going into 4NU is fine. Fable assumes no prior knowledge. Everything he needs to know will be covered in lovely bite sized chunks.

          I agree that if you place by math level, you will likely be more successful. Classical education is not a sprint. You have plenty of time. Go slow to begin with and enjoy!
          Last edited by Enigma; 09-03-2019, 09:39 PM.
          The Homeschool Grads:
          J- 6/96
          S- 11/98

          Still Homeschooling:
          G- 4/04
          D- 5/05
          F- 7/08 (my only girl)

          Future Homeschooler:
          M- 9/16

          Comment


            #6
            THank you everyone! This has been helpful! I am trying to spend the least amount of money as possible. So do you think this will be a good option? Use fourth grade for New Users, but continue with the Rod and Staff products? I will add Fable, but should I also add the grammar recitation or just continue with Rod and Staff. Sarah, yes I went from Right Start to Rod and Staff. My son is very good at all addition and subrtraction, we are still at the beginning of book 4 and he is doing great. He understands multiplication and could figure any problem out, because he knows how it works, but it takes him a while because we didn't just memorize facts.
            Abel (9) MP 4/ Lydia 7.5) MP A3/ James (6) First Start Reading and Rod and Staff 1/ Micah (4)/ Nathanael (2)/ Silas Born 7/13/2019

            Comment


              #7
              I think my son will enjoy the literature in the 4th grade package much more as well! So that will be good!
              Abel (9) MP 4/ Lydia 7.5) MP A3/ James (6) First Start Reading and Rod and Staff 1/ Micah (4)/ Nathanael (2)/ Silas Born 7/13/2019

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by AlexandraMarie View Post
                THank you everyone! This has been helpful! I am trying to spend the least amount of money as possible. So do you think this will be a good option? Use fourth grade for New Users, but continue with the Rod and Staff products? I will add Fable, but should I also add the grammar recitation or just continue with Rod and Staff. Sarah, yes I went from Right Start to Rod and Staff. My son is very good at all addition and subrtraction, we are still at the beginning of book 4 and he is doing great. He understands multiplication and could figure any problem out, because he knows how it works, but it takes him a while because we didn't just memorize facts.
                This last part - “it takes him a while because we didn’t just memorize facts.” This is the reason for R&S 3! That is the biggest point of the whole year is to master their math facts so that they can move on and do more interesting things with the knowledge they have mastered. Yes, understanding what happens when you multiply or divide is good, but even very young children are capable of understanding that. The value of memorizing them is that this is the one time in their lives where they will do it, and it will last forever. It will have a benefit far beyond the small amount of time and effort it takes to do it. But skip it, and it’s always going to be slower than it needs to be. Good familiarity is not the same as mastery. Understanding is not the same as mastery. I really cannot stress enough how important the mastery part is - especially for math.

                I will say it again and then get off my soapbox. I really think you would be doing your children a huge service if you would have them do the R&S 3 until they know those facts backwards and forwards and left and right. If they have additional/subtraction mastered, then do as Enigma suggested and feel free to move quickly past those. But if they don’t, then absolutely do it all until it is down cold.

                And I stress this from personal experience. My kids have been hitting those older child milestones that everyone worries about and I am happy to say that math has always been a bright spot for them. Yet I still face those same choices with my younger ones. I have a 5 year old whom I am trying to keep separate from her older sister in some things to minimize the amount of comparison she does for herself and her sister. So I tried two different 2nd grade maths so that she was not in R&S with her sister. But it has been terrible. I know she’s not mastering her facts in a logical manner, so yesterday I chucked it again and ordered the R&S 2nd grade workbooks for her. I wasn’t going to skip that training for her just because she’s really bright. I have seen what a benefit it is to have that under your belt.

                Only trying to be helpful and avoid an issue for you down the road.

                AMDG,
                Sarah
                Last edited by KF2000; 09-04-2019, 06:17 AM.
                2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
                DD, 19, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
                DS, 16
                DD, 14
                DD, 12
                DD, 10
                DD, 8
                DD, 6
                +DS+
                DS, 2

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by KF2000 View Post

                  This last part - “it takes him a while because we didn’t just memorize facts.” This is the reason for R&S 3! That is the biggest point of the whole year is to master their math facts so that they can move on and do more interesting things with the knowledge they have mastered. Yes, understanding what happens when you multiply or divide is good, but even very young children are capable of understanding that. The value of memorizing them is that this is the one time in their lives where they will do it, and it will last forever. It will have a benefit far beyond the small amount of time and effort it takes to do it. But skip it, and it’s always going to be slower than it needs to be. Good familiarity is not the same as mastery. Understanding is not the same as mastery. I really cannot stress enough how important the mastery part is - especially for math.

                  I will say it again and then get off my soapbox. I really think you would be doing your children a huge service if you would have them do the R&S 3 until they know those facts backwards and forwards and left and right. If they have additional/subtraction mastered, then do as Enigma suggested and feel free to move quickly past those. But if they don’t, then absolutely do it all until it is down cold.

                  And I stress this from personal experience. My kids have been hitting those older child milestones that everyone worries about and I am happy to say that math has always been a bright spot for them. Yet I still face those same choices with my younger ones. I have a 5 year old whom I am trying to keep separate from her older sister in some things to minimize the amount of comparison she does for herself and her sister. So I tried two different 2nd grade maths so that she was not in R&S with her sister. But it has been terrible. I know she’s not mastering her facts in a logical manner, so yesterday I chucked it again and ordered the R&S 2nd grade workbooks for her. I wasn’t going to skip that training for her just because she’s really bright. I have seen what a benefit it is to have that under your belt.

                  Only trying to be helpful and avoid an issue for you down the road.

                  AMDG,
                  Sarah
                  This...I have been on the opposite side - moved on without memorizing facts back in the early days of R&S...Lived to regret it...
                  Tahara

                  Homeschooling two boys
                  DS -19 (9/4/00) Homeschool graduate, 2nd year in college
                  DS -15 (9/9/04) (SN) MP Year 8 w/ FF Latin
                  DS -13 (7/3/06) MP Year 8 w/ FF Latin

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Fact memorization with speed and accuracy is the goal. The understanding will come through continued work through the lessons. While being able to "figure out any problem because you understand how it works" is a good thing, continued speed with which you arrive at the correct answer is going to be key for the transition into abstract math. Since you are wanting to try and save some money you could add in extra speed drills- do one every day as part of the warm up. Begin lesson with the oral portion called for in the teacher guide-- typically recitation of multiplication facts. Next run through addition and subtraction fact flash cards followed immediately with a speed drill for addition and subtraction. I would use the shorter speed drills for this everyday catch-up practice. You can purchase a Rod and Staff speed drill packet very cheaply and the 100 fact packet is reproducible. Limit the longer speed drills to once a week. When you notice speed is up to pace, revert to the speed drill pace of the Rod & Staff Teacher Guide for 4th grade. This method could allow you to continue with the 4th grade materials you purchased while simultaneously increasing his recall time to match his grade level. If his regular lesson calls for a speed drill do it as well, unless it is an additional 100 facts drill for the week.
                    Last edited by Michelle T; 09-05-2019, 09:30 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you everyone! So this is what I did. I bought the 3A manual. I am going to have my son an daughter do Latina Christiana, Christian Studies, Greek Myths, Astronomy , and Christian Studies 1 with the guides. They are staying in their levels of Rod and Staff; but I will emphasize speed and accuracy with the facts and we will continue this over breaks and summer in order to bring them up to speed. My son is going to do Fable 1. I already owned a Geography guide which includes memorizing states and capitals; so I am going to use what I have. I also didn't order literature guides or the grammar recitations in order to save money; we will use Rod and Staff for grammar and I will have them read the literature and write narrations and we will move to guides next year. I do plan on them doing the on level American studies readers since we own a lot of the books and the read alouds. This should be put me on target to have my daughter in 4A next year and my son in 5.
                      Abel (9) MP 4/ Lydia 7.5) MP A3/ James (6) First Start Reading and Rod and Staff 1/ Micah (4)/ Nathanael (2)/ Silas Born 7/13/2019

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I also ordered 1 poetry book and we will share; but I didn't order the guide. I didn't order the timeline project either; it will have to wait until next year. Thankfully I own two Golden children's Bible and 1 Greek Myths, so I only had to order one. I already spent enough on homeschooling this spring; and didn't realize until 3 weeks into our school year that I made some mistakes. Thank you again for your help!
                        Abel (9) MP 4/ Lydia 7.5) MP A3/ James (6) First Start Reading and Rod and Staff 1/ Micah (4)/ Nathanael (2)/ Silas Born 7/13/2019

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Alexandra,
                          Sounds like you have put together something that will work really well for your family this year. It took me three years to move my whole family over to MP, and we were always pinching pennies too! It’s really nice when you are able to get to the point of just ordering consumables! But I still make mistakes and missteps every year it seems like too. It’s never perfect But I hope you will have a great start, and make sure to let us know how it goes!

                          AMDG,
                          Sarah
                          2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
                          DD, 19, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
                          DS, 16
                          DD, 14
                          DD, 12
                          DD, 10
                          DD, 8
                          DD, 6
                          +DS+
                          DS, 2

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