Struggling with Latin...and possibly time management in our schooling.

[MommyJen]

So I have one kiddo (10) who loves Latin, or at least the first 20 lessons we have done (to the best of our ability with lots of cheating to get the correct answers). I have one kiddo (8) who HATES Latin, and it's like pulling teeth with no pain meds, we have daily tears and breakdowns due to Latin and other generally challenging school work. My older kiddos loves watching the DVD lessons, but despises the writing, the memorization, declining, recitation and such. I understand some of the Latin, but not having studied Latin myself, I find it difficult to teach when I don't fully understand. Frequently we cannot figure out how to get the answers that the teachers manual shows. I believe I am missing some kind of information to help me better understand Latin. Any recommendations? My oldest should be doing First Form next year, and I will have one in Prima and one in Christiana as well, is it possible to simplify and just teach one level of Latin to all of us. My oldest did OK with doing her weekly Latin up until Christmas, then we never returned to it.

One of the reasons for not returning to Latin is that we are doing cores for 1st, 3rd and 4th grades. Finding enough time to work with each kid on each subject is taking far longer than I have time for. We have tried to combine as much as we can with the 3rd and 4th grades but they are half books apart in work. Any tips on how people have pared down things to allow time to enjoy the work you are doing? I feel like we are always behind because I can NEVER complete everything scheduled for a day.


On top of the 3 students I also have a 2 year old underfoot who is very loud and demanding of attention.

My 4 kiddos
DD 10 years- 4th Core
DD - 8 years- 3rd Core
DS - 6 years (7 in 2 weeks) - 1st Core
DD - 2 years

[jen1134]

Hi Jen -- I like your name

Can you give us an idea of how your day flows currently? Also, how long have you been doing full cores?

[tanya]

Hello.

I think you should all do Latina Christiana together next year. It will be review for some, but I feel like you need the time to catch up. If you do LC as a family, that means that you also watch the dvds and learn Latin alongside your students. (And don't make the 2nd grader do any of the written work at this point. That student can just tag along and learn whatever filters down.) So Latin becomes a family affair, helping you to master the material so that you don't feel so out of control. And don't expect too much of yourself. LC is an introductory course, so you aren't supposed to master the Latin grammar at this stage. The goal of Latina is to master the vocabulary and grammar forms, but not necessarily to be able to apply them. That will come later. Just relax and enjoy it for now!

We would also love for you to come to our Sodalitas conference if you can swing a trip to Louisville in July. You would get help with all your cores, and you could even stay on Wed. and take a Latin course!

Tanya

[MommyJen]

Hi Jen -- I like your name

Can you give us an idea of how your day flows currently? Also, how long have you been doing full cores?

Hi Jen, This is our 2nd year doing Full cores in all honesty we have slacked both years on the Latin portion. My days are spent bouncing between kids, trying to get them to work on stuff for short period of time, and dealing with the 2 year old, and all that comes with home management. We are up to speed on all Math and Spelling, and we have read/discussed all the literature books for the year. (minimal written work has been done, but lots of discussion). The only extra curricular things we do is Karate on T/Th Afternoons, and those days we start a bit earlier and finish up about a hour shorter of time spent on schooling. We currently don't get a lot of things written down, because all my children really dislike writing, with the exception of doing penmanship. My oldest is a day dreamer and has to be called back to her work many many times a day. The youngest 2 get plenty of playtime while trying to help the older girls. Christian studies are typically the reading and a few of the questions written. Greek myths, we have read everything but little to nothing is written or memorized nor recalled easily for tests of quizzes. We try to reserve our Friday afternoons for field trips or other activities. occasionally we will have appointments on Mondays or Wednesdays and those days we try to make up on Saturday morning or just push into the next week.

Tanya - I attended Sodalitas Conference last year, and benefited greatly, even stayed for one day of the teachers conference to work on Latin.....i guess 8 hours is not enough for me to learn it well enough to feel confident teaching it without very much guidance. I am in the planning stages of possibly attending again this year.

[jen1134]

Hi Jen, This is our 2nd year doing Full cores in all honesty we have slacked both years on the Latin portion. My days are spent bouncing between kids, trying to get them to work on stuff for short period of time, and dealing with the 2 year old, and all that comes with home management. We are up to speed on all Math and Spelling, and we have read/discussed all the literature books for the year. (minimal written work has been done, but lots of discussion). The only extra curricular things we do is Karate on T/Th Afternoons, and those days we start a bit earlier and finish up about a hour shorter of time spent on schooling. We currently don't get a lot of things written down, because all my children really dislike writing, with the exception of doing penmanship. My oldest is a day dreamer and has to be called back to her work many many times a day. The youngest 2 get plenty of playtime while trying to help the older girls. Christian studies are typically the reading and a few of the questions written. Greek myths, we have read everything but little to nothing is written or memorized nor recalled easily for tests of quizzes. We try to reserve our Friday afternoons for field trips or other activities. occasionally we will have appointments on Mondays or Wednesdays and those days we try to make up on Saturday morning or just push into the next week.

Tanya - I attended Sodalitas Conference last year, and benefited greatly, even stayed for one day of the teachers conference to work on Latin.....i guess 8 hours is not enough for me to learn it well enough to feel confident teaching it without very much guidance. I am in the planning stages of possibly attending again this year.

Got it.

I really struggled last fall to find our groove with my two Simply Classical students and my 2nd grader and I received some awesome advice: whittle down to what they most needed to work on and focus on that for two months. Then, gradually add other items back in. This was a game-changer for us. We did Phonics/Reading/Spelling. That was it. We also did Latin with my 2nd grader since it was needed for co-op. But that was it. And their confidence and abilities SOARED! I found our rhythm for their morning school time, we were making steady progress in everything and things were so much more peaceful.

After two months or so, I added Math back in, but I decided to postpone copywork and cursive until summer as our "keep up a sense of routine" work. For my 6th grader, we postponed geography and spelling until summer. The areas you keep/add back/postpone will be different based on your own children's strengths and weaknesses, but like I said, this was a total game-changer for us.

Another thing that has been critical here: I know most people "round-robin" with all/most of their kids working at the same time but that just doesn't work for us — especially since I have kids that need multiple reminders to stay on task. It made for hectic days where I struggled to remember who got to what and who fell through the cracks. I was miserable and they never felt they had my attention for any length of time.

Instead, I work with one child at a time and, because this is focused time (even if the toddler is climbing all over us), they get their work done quicker and better. It also allows us to really work on each child's trouble areas (for us it's phonics and reading and one child hates writing in the guides).

What do you think of these options?

[tanya]

Those Latin conferences can be overwhelming. We make our new teachers attend once before they start teaching, and then again after they have taught for one year. we make them sit attend again. Once you've taught something, you come to a training with a different mindset. So consider this your post-teaching training, just like the HLS teachers!

Tanya

[KF2000]

Jen,
I really like the suggestions that both Tanya and Jen have given you already. I think for the ages of children that you have, teaching LC to all of them is a perfect idea...and then as Tanya mentioned, don't try to do more than what is listed in the book. Keep it simple, stick to memorization, drill a lot, and see how that goes for you. Even your oldest still is so young. My oldest was in 5th grade when she did LC - and she is now just weeks away from graduating from high school with three gold medals on the NLE under her belt. Deep breaths - you have time!!!!

Also, Jen's idea of picking their weakest area and really focusing on that for a couple of months is super...I can see that really helping them begin to gain confidence in what they are supposed to be doing so that they can develop a bit of independence and thus not be so dependent on you to walk them through every single thing for school.

I just wanted to add that you are just now beginning to enter the stage where having a brood of little people begins to get easier. Having an oldest 10 year old is the beginning of having live-in help! And having the two oldest ones be so close in age means that you are really not that far from having two very capable people who will be able to do a lot more on their own soon to help out. In addition to the academic advice you have gotten, I would also suggest spending whatever time off you take this summer working with them to develop skills around the house so that they are pitching in and taking on some new responsibilities. They can learn some new chores, you can work out a schedule of when stuff gets done, and decide if you want some sort of reward system or not for completing their responsibilities. It is a great confidence builder even outside of school work to realize that you can clean a whole bathroom all by yourself (and yes, a ten year old is capable of that!) We have a weekly routine of household tasks, grocery-getting, meal-planning and whatnot that has not really changed for about 10 years now. Everyone lives in the home, so everyone helps take care of it.

And lastly, I also just wanted to say that in addition to being on the cusp of having children who are capable of quite a lot, you are also on the cusp of some delightful years where the constant parenting you have been doing is going to ease off a bit more. In my experience, girls are hardest around 9; boys around 11. Both your oldest two are "right there" so-to-speak, and I would guess they are proving to be quite difficult to handle in the emotions department - not just in school! This too shall pass! Everything that makes them very frustrating around 9-10, then makes them somewhat awkward and vulnerable around 11-12, and by 13-14 you have pretty much reached "it" and are in the clear. Daily routine, consistent consequences, and increasing expectations are all aggravating but absolutely necessary for them - so hang in there!!!

AMDG,
Sarah

[MBentley]

Jen,
I really like the suggestions that both Tanya and Jen have given you already. I think for the ages of children that you have, teaching LC to all of them is a perfect idea...and then as Tanya mentioned, don't try to do more than what is listed in the book. Keep it simple, stick to memorization, drill a lot, and see how that goes for you. Even your oldest still is so young. My oldest was in 5th grade when she did LC - and she is now just weeks away from graduating from high school with three gold medals on the NLE under her belt. Deep breaths - you have time!!!!

Also, Jen's idea of picking their weakest area and really focusing on that for a couple of months is super...I can see that really helping them begin to gain confidence in what they are supposed to be doing so that they can develop a bit of independence and thus not be so dependent on you to walk them through every single thing for school.

I just wanted to add that you are just now beginning to enter the stage where having a brood of little people begins to get easier. Having an oldest 10 year old is the beginning of having live-in help! And having the two oldest ones be so close in age means that you are really not that far from having two very capable people who will be able to do a lot more on their own soon to help out. In addition to the academic advice you have gotten, I would also suggest spending whatever time off you take this summer working with them to develop skills around the house so that they are pitching in and taking on some new responsibilities. They can learn some new chores, you can work out a schedule of when stuff gets done, and decide if you want some sort of reward system or not for completing their responsibilities. It is a great confidence builder even outside of school work to realize that you can clean a whole bathroom all by yourself (and yes, a ten year old is capable of that!) We have a weekly routine of household tasks, grocery-getting, meal-planning and whatnot that has not really changed for about 10 years now. Everyone lives in the home, so everyone helps take care of it.

And lastly, I also just wanted to say that in addition to being on the cusp of having children who are capable of quite a lot, you are also on the cusp of some delightful years where the constant parenting you have been doing is going to ease off a bit more. In my experience, girls are hardest around 9; boys around 11. Both your oldest two are "right there" so-to-speak, and I would guess they are proving to be quite difficult to handle in the emotions department - not just in school! This too shall pass! Everything that makes them very frustrating around 9-10, then makes them somewhat awkward and vulnerable around 11-12, and by 13-14 you have pretty much reached "it" and are in the clear. Daily routine, consistent consequences, and increasing expectations are all aggravating but absolutely necessary for them - so hang in there!!!

AMDG,
Sarah

There is something so comforting from the parents who post here when they have passed milestones and mountains that you are facing. I have a very similar age group to yours MommyJen. Mine are 8,7,5, and 2 with the only girl being the youngest. I have learned so much from the "been there done that" wisdom of the people that patiently take the time to post on this board. In many ways, I feel like they are true mentors and in my own personal life, I haven't had that. I absolutely love it when people with older kids post about their own journey raising their kids with this program and what they've learned and I've modified my approach so much by being active here and listening to the wisdom and guidance. In what little way I can help, even though I am new to the journey myself with smaller kids close in age.

I totally agree about the house chores. I taught my older boys to fold their clothes Kon-Mari style (basically you roll them up) a few months ago. They aren't perfect but they are "responsible" for it. Four kids means mountains of laundry. I make them do that while I wash dishes and we listen to the music for that week. I haven't fully incorporated the music appreciation as written, but it's a part of our week and allows multiple things to happen at the same time.

I do the round robin approach though. We all sit together with each kid in their own individual desks facing towards each other and me. I keep the youngest at my side so that I can keep him on track better. Then I can glance across to make sure the older ones aren't zoning out into La La Land. While generally I have them in their own cores, I did modify a bit (hey, I didn't know what i was getting into with MP and I can't un-ring that bell). So I have both the 1st and 2nd grader doing the same math (2). Both are doing Prima Latina. We watch the videos 3 x because I have them watch it while they slowly - painfully slowly - eat their breakfast. We don't do breakfast until around 9:45/10 though because no one is hungry first thing. We start around 8:30 so I can get through Recitation, Copybook Scripture, Spelling, Phonics (added in), Cursive, and if we can...Math. After breakfast, I take a break. They get some downtime. By this time, the youngest is probably done for the day with most of his work. He was started early because of his birthday (Sept) so I'm taking an extra long time to finish his school year and will have him done with K around late fall/early winter this year. He will likely be a calendar year grade school kid for a while. I pull the older ones back for individual Literature/Science/History and we all come back together for the Enrichment throughout the week when I can squeeze it in.

The real question ....what is going on with the 2 year old, right? Well...that's been a work in progress. She hates to be kept in her room with the gate up. She hates that gate so much that she closes her door so she doesn't see it. Her room is able to see the TV though. I often put on Tinkerbell, or some Disney show, or Leapfrog, Miss Spider's Sunny Patch, or some kid of educational whatever. Basically, she plays independently for the early part of the day. She hates it but there's not much I can do about it. After breakfast, she gets more roam time because my youngest is there to sort of play with her. Sort of. She can come into the school room for short periods and I have a little desk for her with crayons and paper. As long as she's quiet. About 5 minutes. If I'm lucky. After that she's hugging her brothers, climbing into their chairs and literally kicking them out of the chairs to the floor.

I'm doing Latin with the kids. I can see no way forward except to master it myself even without a history of it. I think it makes it easier if I know how to do what I expect them to do. There's so many of them, and we will be repeating it 2 more times for the younger 2 kids. It just makes sense for now. So, as long as the videos hold out, I'll be okay. Listening to it 3 times over breakfast forces me to clean the kitchen...bleh...but I pick up a lot of it. I did create my own "vocabulary drill book" for Latin where i made 27 copies of the 3 vocabulary blocks so that each kid (myself too) has a spiral bound booklet to go back to and copy their vocabulary. We race to see who can copy the daily block the fastest. Honestly, if I had my choice, I would have wanted a sheet inside of each lesson in the workbooks themselves for completing each of these blocks. Otherwise it's just loose paper running around that needs to be kept for 5 days. I so love loose paper with 3 little boys.

Sadly, the area I'm really falling behind? Christian studies of all things. I always back burner that one. I'm so bad and I feel so guilty about that one. I don't know how to get us all on track with that one when all 3 are supposed to be in different places. I'll probably combine my older two again next year when I start the 3rd grade Christian studies and we start back at Genesis. It may be more of a struggle for my 2nd grader, but he's an advanced reader. Language and insight comes freakishly easy to him. I'm going to start the K Christian studies now with all 3 so that when I start 1st grade this coming winter, he will be on track for 1st grade.

I get behind all the time. My school year sort of runs from Aug1 - July 31. I keep all of it on a digital planner and print out the week for each kid and myself and scribble profusely over it each day checking off each thing so that I know where I'm at when I get to Friday. Some weeks, I don't do the Enrichment at all and postpone the whole batch to the following week. All of it will get done, even if it's not in the week listed in the guide.

I reserve the right to change my plan....hourly. :-) Don't copy anything I'm doing through. I don't know if it will work! I'm just guessing myself. I'm just trying to offer encouragement that if it sounds like you are multi-tasking to ridiculous levels, then that's probably normal-ish... You are doing an amazing job. Trust in that.

Melissa

[enbateau]

My DD hates doing the hard work necessary to truly assimilate the knowledge into her working memory as well. There is whining every.single.time. I'm learning to be immune to it. I spent so much time chasing curricula that felt gentle and easy and adapted to her "modality" of learning. The best pep talks I've gotten here that set my eldest on the path to success were to just do it. Do the drill. Do the Recitation. Do the writing over and over and over. It is a day-noon-night thing around here. And there is always groaning. But on Latin test day, there are smiles. There is pride. There is that sense of accomplishment. That is their own reward.

What you are doing is so hard. Teaching multiple cores is quite the challenge. We did a similar roll out to what others described, beefing up each subject as we could juggle it well. I'm also going to work more exclusively with my youngest over the summer because he fights me the hardest...and some days I just want to feel victorious, so I don't even start with him. That's all me, though, and I know that the more I give in and drop work due to whining, the longer it takes to dig yourself out from that. Kids are master manipulators at getting out of work, no matter how gentle, easy, and appropriate the material is. I pray that you feel strength in your resolve in Latin, that you find peace in the midst if the whining, and that you get to see the fruit of the labor of your hands in your children.

[tanya]

Melissa,

Do Christian studies together as a family. That is one area where your family can study together. Part of the start of your day or right after your lunch break are perfect times to sit down together and read the Bible story. You can discuss it using the teacher guide, and then if you want the older kids to fill in the student guide, that is something they can do while you work with the younger ones. And they will be set up for success because you have just taught the lesson orally. No more guilt about Christian studies! You can totally nail this one together.

Tanya

[MBentley]

Melissa,

Do Christian studies together as a family. That is one area where your family can study together. Part of the start of your day or right after your lunch break are perfect times to sit down together and read the Bible story. You can discuss it using the teacher guide, and then if you want the older kids to fill in the student guide, that is something they can do while you work with the younger ones. And they will be set up for success because you have just taught the lesson orally. No more guilt about Christian studies! You can totally nail this one together.

Tanya

You really need to be on my permanent Christmas Card list.

[pickandgrin]

Katie Was it you all who did Christian Studies as a family on Sunday nights? There are so many options to flex things to make them work. Keep up the good work, Melissa!

[tanya]

Ha! Just give me a hug in July!

Tanya

[carriede]

In my experience, girls are hardest around 9; boys around 11.

What?! So my two oldests will hit this AT THE SAME TIME! Say it ain't so!

[KF2000]

What?! So my two oldests will hit this AT THE SAME TIME! Say it ain't so!

Oh, dear one, you are not alone. See my signature? I will not be in the clear for at least five years yet!
(and that's just the girls...)
AMDG,
Sarah