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ISO: History of Education (in the last several hundred years)

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    ISO: History of Education (in the last several hundred years)

    Does anyone have a good resource for learning more about the history of education broadly in the last several hundred years? Ideally it would be some sort of survey since I don't want to devote much (any?) reading time to all the key proponents' landmark works. This mama doesn't have the margin for that. I just want the arc of the thinkers, movements, and reasons. I have a rough sketch of who classical educators think are wearing the white and black cowboy hats, but I don't have a good understanding of each thinker's main ideas and the consequences of their ideas. I'm already set on classical ed resources, thanks MP! Thanks for any ideas!
    Last edited by pickandgrin; 04-18-2019, 08:22 AM.
    Festina lentē,
    Jessica P

    2021-2022 • 12th year HSing • 10th year MP
    DS 12th • HLN, Latin online, DE math/sci - Headed to Hillsdale College next fall
    DD 10th • HLN, Latin online
    DD 7th • HLN & Home
    DS 4th • HLN & Home
    Me • Memoria College, this summer: MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

    Teaching TFL and co-directing @
    Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

    #2
    No one writes better about the last century than John Taylor Gatto. He particularly describes the turn from late 1700s educational philosophy to late 1800s philosophy as German thought prevailed. German and quasi-research-based philosophies dominated the last century as we moved into the new millennium. I reading Dumbing Us Down and Weapons of Mass Instruction. I heard the Underground Hisotory of American Education isn't as thorough as DuD.

    I don't have a better recommendation for eras prior to that, but honestly a quick Google search could net some results. Lots of French philosophers wrote about the decrepit American education system in the 1700s. There are probably a plethora of books.
    Last edited by enbateau; 04-18-2019, 08:49 AM.
    Mama of 2, teacher of 3

    SY 21/22
    5A w/ SFL & CC Narrative class
    MP1

    Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A
    SC B, SC C, SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

    Comment


      #3
      I am interested in this too! I have been wanting to read about the history of education models for years but don’t know a trusted source. I’d love to know about education in Europe before and after the renaissance and then the development of public as well as private education in America. A good, easy to read summary of the history of education would be awesome. Thanks for asking!!!
      Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
      DD, 27, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
      DS, 25, BS '18 mechanical engineering
      DS, 23, BS '20 Chemsitry, pursuing phd at Wash U
      (DDIL married #3 in 2020, MPOA grad, BA '20 philosophy, pusrsing phd at SLU)
      DS, 21, Physics and math major
      DD, 18, dyslexic, 12th grade dual enrolled
      DS, 14, future engineer/scientist/ world conquerer 9th MPOA diploma student
      DD, 8 , 2nd Future astronaut, robot building space artist

      Comment


        #4
        Enbatau,
        Took your suggestion and I'm listening to DUD now (with my two oldest kids, no less)!
        Festina lentē,
        Jessica P

        2021-2022 • 12th year HSing • 10th year MP
        DS 12th • HLN, Latin online, DE math/sci - Headed to Hillsdale College next fall
        DD 10th • HLN, Latin online
        DD 7th • HLN & Home
        DS 4th • HLN & Home
        Me • Memoria College, this summer: MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

        Teaching TFL and co-directing @
        Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

        Comment


          #5
          The authoritative source on American education is Lawrence Cremin's American Education, which covers three periods of American education in three volumes. But that is a lot. His book The Transformation of the School is the best book on education in the first six decades of the 20th century. It is only one volume. Diane Ravitch, Cremin's student at Columbia University, also has several good books on American education in the 20th century, the best one being Left Back: A Century of Battles over School Reform.

          If you want something more all-encompassing, there is the last volume of James Bowen's three volume History of Western Education: The Modern West, Europe, and the New World.

          There is also Herbert Kliebard's The Struggle for the American Curriculum. Gatto's book is great also, and Tracy Lee Simmons does have a lot of history of early American history in it.

          If you want the lowdown on education in colonial America and the founding period--particularly the classical influence, Richard Gummere is the man: Seven Wise Men of Colonial America and The American Colonial Mind and the Classical Tradition.

          Comment


            #6
            Martin,
            When will your all-in-one, greatly condensed version of all these books come out? Ha! Thank you for the resources. I am curious while at the same time I want to limit how much I invest in ferreting out "what's wrong with things." Since you know exactly what we are doing in our homeschools across K-12, which of these do you think would be the most beneficial for us to read and think about more deeply?
            Festina lentē,
            Jessica P

            2021-2022 • 12th year HSing • 10th year MP
            DS 12th • HLN, Latin online, DE math/sci - Headed to Hillsdale College next fall
            DD 10th • HLN, Latin online
            DD 7th • HLN & Home
            DS 4th • HLN & Home
            Me • Memoria College, this summer: MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

            Teaching TFL and co-directing @
            Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
              Martin,
              When will your all-in-one, greatly condensed version of all these books come out? Ha! Thank you for the resources. I am curious while at the same time I want to limit how much I invest in ferreting out "what's wrong with things." Since you know exactly what we are doing in our homeschools across K-12, which of these do you think would be the most beneficial for us to read and think about more deeply?
              Yes! I want the all in one summary version. I want the facts of what it was, not the propaganda of what was wrong. I just want a solid but quick read putting everything in context for me. I’m not trying to be an academic- but I do want to speak true facts when discussing how classical education compares to say the education Thomas Aquinas received or that of Thomas Jefferson or even modern leaders like John F Kennedy.
              Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
              DD, 27, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
              DS, 25, BS '18 mechanical engineering
              DS, 23, BS '20 Chemsitry, pursuing phd at Wash U
              (DDIL married #3 in 2020, MPOA grad, BA '20 philosophy, pusrsing phd at SLU)
              DS, 21, Physics and math major
              DD, 18, dyslexic, 12th grade dual enrolled
              DS, 14, future engineer/scientist/ world conquerer 9th MPOA diploma student
              DD, 8 , 2nd Future astronaut, robot building space artist

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by enbateau View Post
                No one writes better about the last century than John Taylor Gatto. He particularly describes the turn from late 1700s educational philosophy to late 1800s philosophy as German thought prevailed. German and quasi-research-based philosophies dominated the last century as we moved into the new millennium. I reading Dumbing Us Down and Weapons of Mass Instruction. I heard the Underground Hisotory of American Education isn't as thorough as DuD.

                I don't have a better recommendation for eras prior to that, but honestly a quick Google search could net some results. Lots of French philosophers wrote about the decrepit American education system in the 1700s. There are probably a plethora of books.
                I have Underground History by Gatto requested from the library but haven't seen it yet. I was under the impression that it is quite a bit longer than Dumbing Us Down, which I have right now (just over 100 pages). I started reading Underground History almost five years ago when it was available free online (looks like it still is!). It looks like it's longer than Dumbing Us Down, so I was surprised that you'd heard it wasn't as thorough!

                I recently spoke with a PhD student studying education and asked what he thought of John Taylor Gatto. He said he is not taken seriously in higher education because he lays out the history like a conspiracy theory, which doesn't surprise me at all. I think that Gatto's work would make for a fascinating study for a doctoral student truly interested in education, politics aside.

                Jessica, can you keep us posted on your findings? And your thoughts on what you find (if you have time to report back here)?
                2019-20
                DS--9, 3M/4M
                DD--7, mix of 1 and 2
                DD--5, MP K
                DS--3
                DS--1

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
                  Enbatau,
                  Took your suggestion and I'm listening to DUD now (with my two oldest kids, no less)!
                  I'll be honest --- I listened to WMI and DUD after hearing Andrew Pudewa and Martin recommend them. I had to listen in bits and spurts, because it depressed me.

                  Maybe depressed is not the right term, but it saddened me tremendously. I was left with a feeling of gloom, seriously. It felt heavy on all the things that were wrong (which are not surprising to us), but light on the 'how do we fix things?"

                  In one of the books, Gatto discusses The Bartleby Project. I find it fascinating, but a bit scary.
                  Plans for 2021-22

                  Year 11 of homeschooling with MP

                  DD1 - 26 - Small Business owner with 2 locations
                  DD2 - 15 - 10th grade - HLS Cottage School/MPOA/True North Academy/Vita Beata - equestrian
                  DS3 - 13 -6A Cottage School - soccer/tennis -dyslexia and dysgraphia
                  DS4 - 13 - 6A Cottage School -soccer -auditory processing disorder
                  DD5 - 9 - 4A, Cottage School/MPOA -equestrian
                  DS6 - 7 - MPK - first time at the Cottage School this fall!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Dianna,

                    You are helping us fix things! Listen to all that depressing gloom and doom, and then come to Cincinnati and help us save Western Civilization next week!

                    Tanya

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Emilylovesbooks View Post

                      I recently spoke with a PhD student studying education and asked what he thought of John Taylor Gatto. He said he is not taken seriously in higher education because he lays out the history like a conspiracy theory, which doesn't surprise me at all. I think that Gatto's work would make for a fascinating study for a doctoral student truly interested in education, politics aside.

                      Jessica, can you keep us posted on your findings? And your thoughts on what you find (if you have time to report back here)?
                      This is exactly one of my frustrations--finding reliable sources. Listening to Gatto was a bit erratic: "Brilliant!"... "You're crazy!" ..."Exactly!" ..."Whoa, why did you have to go there?"
                      Martin has given me plenty good ones and maybe I'll get one of those from the library to flip through. I am probably not digging deep into this any time soon, truth be told. I do know that quite a few homeschool parents on here have education degrees. Perhaps they can contribute a bit to this conversation? If someone can give me good bullet points on this I might send you a gift card. Ha!

                      One nice thing listening to DuD was thinking, "Wow, I'm so glad we homeschool!" But it also brings up guilt about the doom and gloom that is normative in so many children's lives concerning their time in school, especially for those with absolutely no choice or options, and my inability to wave a magic wand and make that all better. Lord, have mercy.

                      Most of the places I've previously heard Gatto mentioned are in direct relation to unschooling. However, I'm surprised by how much content he mentions that is directly classical. Just in the first 1/3 of the book he's mentioned critical thinking, the ability to reason and question, rhetoric, literature, Socrates, Plato, Augustine, and Aquinas, just to name a few things and names. He's mentioned the age of the American founders and pre-compulsory schooling and extremely high literacy rates among the populace that were not slaves or indentured servants. He did say modern education is almost 100% method, his "7 lessons," as distinct from any knowledge or content. This reminded me of Martin's article on Classical Education is More Than a Method. I was also reading up on John Dewey (1916--his work is older than I thought) this morning in preparation for a webinar and am realizing that he, or at least his followers, also was focused on a method rather than specific content.

                      One question I am curious about is this: when did education stop being primarily about the cultivation of a good mind? It seems almost scandalous to suggest now that education is about (primarily about? exclusively about?) the cultivation of the mind. When homeschoolers talk about education, they are often talking about everything from grammar to loading the dishwasher to playing an instrument to math to starting a business to nature walks. In schools, education covers the entire scope of choir, band, theatre, academic classes, student government, sports, service clubs, and social events. To use Robert Hutchins' words:

                      No one can deny the value of getting together, of learning to get along with others, of coming to appreciate the methods of organization and the duties of membership in an organization any more than one can deny the importance of physical health and sportsmanship. It seems on the face of it a trifle absurd, however, to go to the trouble of training and engaging teachers, of erecting laboratories and libraries, and laying out a program of instruction and learning if, in effect, the curriculum is extra and the extra-curriculum is the heart of the matter.
                      It seems doubtful whether the purposes of the educational system can be found in the pursuits of objects that the Boy Scouts, the YMCA, and the local country club, to say nothing of the family and the church purport to be pursing. The unique function of the educational system would appear to have something to do with the mind. (Great Books of the Western World, Vol. 1, "The Great Conversation")

                      So this is the thinking behind my questions above about the history of education. More than anyone wanted to know, I'm quite sure.

                      Festina lentē,
                      Jessica P

                      2021-2022 • 12th year HSing • 10th year MP
                      DS 12th • HLN, Latin online, DE math/sci - Headed to Hillsdale College next fall
                      DD 10th • HLN, Latin online
                      DD 7th • HLN & Home
                      DS 4th • HLN & Home
                      Me • Memoria College, this summer: MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

                      Teaching TFL and co-directing @
                      Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I would love for a resource that gives the main points and references for further reading--kind of like MP's timeline resource to help the kid's see the big picture of history. Here's an example of where I (unexpectedly) came across some succinct and useful summarizing points about the history of education: in Phonics from A to Z. The author briefly summarized the history of phonics education. It wasn't detailed, but it helped me to pinpoint what I already knew and what I would like to know more about.
                        Michaela
                        Daughter: Age 11 MP 6A (MPOA for TFL, 6th grade math, and composition)
                        Son: Age 6 1st Grade MP Traditional Spelling, Literature, Math, and Handwriting
                        for 2019/2020 school year

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Michaela, Great idea! I actually own that but have never read through it.
                          Festina lentē,
                          Jessica P

                          2021-2022 • 12th year HSing • 10th year MP
                          DS 12th • HLN, Latin online, DE math/sci - Headed to Hillsdale College next fall
                          DD 10th • HLN, Latin online
                          DD 7th • HLN & Home
                          DS 4th • HLN & Home
                          Me • Memoria College, this summer: MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

                          Teaching TFL and co-directing @
                          Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

                          Comment


                            #14
                            When I was earning my MaEd a few years ago, one of my early classes looked at the history of education. The project assigned at the end of that unit was to write our own philosophy of education paper. It was understood that Education as a concept was now Enlightened from the Old Day of... gasp... memorization. I was given to believe that the most soul crushing task given to the human mind was memorization of pure facts. Memorization is ethically and morally wrong, and smacks of the patriarchy.



                            Even Dickens was guilty of promulgating this mistaken idea. Have you read Hard Times?


                            So, I will say that a textbook for teachers would give you a summary of the eras or a timeline of the history of education, but it definitely will not have the flavor you are seeking.


                            Jessica, you ask: when did education stop being primarily about the cultivation of a good mind?

                            My take away from my studies, at least in America, was the era of John Dewey. His "enlightened" ideas about student driven learning, social reform, and democracy created the paradigm where the inmates are running the asylum. Throughout our class discussions, it was obvious that the other students worshiped this idea of student directed learning and social reform. America needs to get away from the dominant culture! The inequity and horror of it all!

                            When I wrote my own philosophy of education paper, not surprisingly, it was an apology for classical education. My teacher had provided a rubric, and since my paper met all of the qualifications for an A, I did receive that mark. She never did comment on the content of the paper, which was only fair, since I was "directing my own learning", which means she wasn't allowed to tell me that I was wrong.


                            To me it seemed as if Dewey, in his student directed learning, was advocating more for hands-on and training a student toward being a member of the society more so than educating the intellect and will of the student. To recognize the truth, virtue, and beauty of the world, it is the intellect and will that must be formed. By turning over every educational decision to the criteria How will this affect and/or meet the students' needs in society?, education becomes more about practical training than the cultivation of a good mind.





                            Jen
                            DS, 28 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace)

                            DS, 26 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

                            DD, 23 yrs, graduated from The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC; 2nd grade teacher.

                            DS, 13 yrs, 9th grade; attends a private classical school, 7th - 12th.

                            All homeschooled for some/all of their K-12 education.

                            Me: retired after 16 years of continuous homeschooling, now a high school chemistry teacher at a large Catholic high school

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Not to get too heady, but I just watched a presentation by Astrophysicist Dr. Jason Lisle on an apologetic for God based on the existence of mathematical reasoning. He posited that the reliability of mathematics to always work anywhere in the universe mirrors the universality, immutability and infinite nature of God. He went deeper, talking about how numbers are a concept, and even though math was preexistent to the formation of our universe and can be used to understand our universe, numbers demand the concept of a mind. So, even if secular scientists try to explain the earth's origins only with math, math in itself requires a mind because numbers are not material. The things we use to describe them with are material, but numbers aren't physical themselves. Soooooooo, if you want to know when the philosophy changed and the goalpost moved about educating minds, it came with our radical secularization and return to naturalistic explanations for our universe. What is a mind? It is intangible. Naturalism purports that the mind and spirit are figments of our imagination. If we are just random balls of meat hurdling through outer space with no moral law giver and no moral law, then each primate Homo sapien is following his or her (zir) animalian instincts. We become beholden to the loudest shrieking voice, currently to the group scoring highest on the intersectional hierarchy of victimization and historical oppression. If now is all that matters, of course we have to level the playing field at the expense of Western civilization.

                              There are a plethora of great thinkers out there who can mark the generation that started the paradigm shift. Many believe the Greatest Generation failed to pass on to the Baby Boomers their love of God and liberty/Western Civilization. And in opening up an honest critique of Western Civ and America's failings, we have forgotten that we can explain evil from a secular point of view, but we cannot explain its goodness and why we have been leaders against evil, which goes against our "evolutionary advantage."

                              When I got my degree in education, the goalpost was the same: good citizens who can thrive in our constitutional republic, regardless of race, gender, or disability. The goalpost has shifted. There is no such thing as gender. You are only defined by your race, and you're free to segregate yourself from diverse thought. Everyone can explain his or her actions based on a biological disability, and if not, they are still victims of oppression in a patriarchal tyranny of white privilege. America is an imperialist nation that has undermined equality of outcome throughout the world, and at its core it needs to be fundamentally changed from the ground up.

                              Truth has died a thousand deaths, and if only the cowards remain, we will have rightly received what we asked for.
                              Mama of 2, teacher of 3

                              SY 21/22
                              5A w/ SFL & CC Narrative class
                              MP1

                              Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A
                              SC B, SC C, SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

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