3M Core for 2 Students: Questions

[cdoran]

Hi All,

I'm looking for advice on my situation. Feel free to direct me to other threads.

I am on week 8 of 3M with my two kids after following a Charlotte Mason curriculum (A Gentle Feast) for the first part of the year. I aim to use the full core, but right now my kids are doing Beast Academy math and our own religion and history. Here's what my two students are like:

Son, almost 10: excellent memory and reading comprehension, reads chapter books fluently, struggles with writing very slowly and math is harder for him. Because he writes so slowly, he does most of his work orally. He is working through NAC, starting with book 1.

Daughter, almost 8.5: quick at pretty much everything, writes pages in journals for fun, gets math quickly, probably not quite as strong in reading comprehension

My Questions (feel free to just answer one. I've been storing these up for a while!)
1. I've read that it is not good to combine the kids. It is working fine so far, But I want to meet each of them where they're at, while still setting a challenging bar. I don't want to hold my son's ability to process what he is learning mentally back until his fine motor skills catch up. But I do want to him to practice those so he can be a fast writer. I try to keep them evenly paced by having her write answers, while my son speaks them. Are there any curriculum changes I should look into to address this?

2. I feel like 3M moves slowly in some areas, like Greek Myths and Latin. Granted I don't do every subject yet, but is this a common perception? My children do not seem to need all the review built into the curriculum manual.

3. Do you add things to lessons to make them come more alive? Like Greek gods family tree or mammals posters/printables?

4. I have LC flashcards, review box cards, Greek Myths cards, and recitation. It seems like there are some overlapping pieces in here. I haven't yet taken the time to sort through and see where a recitation fact is already covered in Greek myths cards, but perhaps someone can enlighten me.

5. I have noticed that some of the grammar seems to be a big leap. The concept of person in Latin was a big one for my kids. They figured it out, but it was totally new to them. I'm wondering what foundational parts of second grade my kids missed versus what is actually new 3rd grade material. For instance, my children have never done enough work with pronouns to REALLY know them, yet when we learned person for Latin, that knowledge was pretty important. So, do MP second graders spend a lot of time on parts of speech?



I know that this a bunch of questions! I probably have more than I can't remember. Thank you for your time,

Callie

[howiecram]

I think I would separate them for literature. This seems absurd considering they are reading the same novels, but as you can see it is causing some issues. You might come together and do the pre-reading activities and round robin the novels, but then do the questions separately? There is something called “Simply Classical”. I do not wonder if your older son would benefit from the SC 5/6 one year plans? (Note there are also two year plans which you will not need) These plans may solve a few problems.

1) literature is scheduled, but the student books are not used. (A few questions are written in a notebook) these are the same books you already have!
2) Greek Myths and Christian Studies are at a 1 year pace, instead of 2 (this may solve the it moves too slow). These are also scheduled without the use of the student book
3) Latin is at the same pace as your current guide, but a few more “helps” provided and is scheduled daily, instead of on,y a few days a week

You can buy the individual plans for “Christian Studies/Classical Studies”, Literature and Latin as stand alone and have them instantly! Do not let “Simply Classical” deter you! I would then insist that his writing in All Things Fun and Fascinating be done to the fullest extent.

Lastky, as for the recitation and cards, these are an either/or situation, not both! Some families like the “review box” method over the recitation questions. You choose!

[DiannaKennedy]

My Questions (feel free to just answer one. I've been storing these up for a while!)
1. I've read that it is not good to combine the kids. It is working fine so far, But I want to meet each of them where they're at, while still setting a challenging bar. I don't want to hold my son's ability to process what he is learning mentally back until his fine motor skills catch up. But I do want to him to practice those so he can be a fast writer. I try to keep them evenly paced by having her write answers, while my son speaks them. Are there any curriculum changes I should look into to address this?

2. I feel like 3M moves slowly in some areas, like Greek Myths and Latin. Granted I don't do every subject yet, but is this a common perception? My children do not seem to need all the review built into the curriculum manual.

3. Do you add things to lessons to make them come more alive? Like Greek gods family tree or mammals posters/printables?

4. I have LC flashcards, review box cards, Greek Myths cards, and recitation. It seems like there are some overlapping pieces in here. I haven't yet taken the time to sort through and see where a recitation fact is already covered in Greek myths cards, but perhaps someone can enlighten me.

5. I have noticed that some of the grammar seems to be a big leap. The concept of person in Latin was a big one for my kids. They figured it out, but it was totally new to them. I'm wondering what foundational parts of second grade my kids missed versus what is actually new 3rd grade material. For instance, my children have never done enough work with pronouns to REALLY know them, yet when we learned person for Latin, that knowledge was pretty important. So, do MP second graders spend a lot of time on parts of speech?



I know that this a bunch of questions! I probably have more than I can't remember. Thank you for your time,

Callie

Hi Callie!

You've gotten some great advice from howiecram -- she brought up some great points. I have boys who are working through a combo of 3A/3M/SC 5/6, so I thought I'd chime in here, too.

Combining IS a challenge for me. Some people make it look like a piece of cake. For me, if we combine. I really have to think long and hard about each child's abilities/strengths. I will also pull a child aside and explain why the expectations are different for them, as opposed to their siblings. I'm likely going to do a combo class in the summer of States and Capitals for my boys (age 11) along with their little sister (7). We will see how that goes. It may be pure disaster.


I would definitely encourage cursive. It has seriously been a game changer in our school. Consistency is key --- a little bit each day helps so much.

Like Christine mentioned, in 3M, the pace is slowed for LC and GM. You could just look ahead in your lesson plans (curriculum guide) and speed it up, or purchase the one year plans. Even if your children don't seem to need all the review, I would encourage you to stick with it, for the sake of establishing that habit. We have not been consistent with review in our homeschool, and it's come back to bite us in the butt later.

We honestly don't add too much to Greek Myths, but a)I'm NOT a hands on kind of person, and b)my kids have been steeped in Greek Myths for a number of years. My boys have been listening to Greek Myths on Audible since they were about 5, because their older sister was studying it. I did make some coloring pages that go along with the characters, but my boys aren't into all that anymore.

The student guides have enrichment ideas built in. If you look over (it's usually under the comprehension questions) in the enrichment sections, there are ideas there. We've spent a lot of time examining the illustrations, talking about where we see Greek mythology references today, etc. If you're in an area with an art museum, go look at Greek art. I'm contemplating a trip to Nashville, to see the Parthenon replica. If you look check out Jessica's instagram, I think she has pictures of the MASSIVE Athena statue there.

I know that Prima Latina introduced some of these grammar concepts --- then LC dives in more. I THINK FFL goes through it again. I know we're going through nouns, verbs, etc in English Grammar Recitation, and it's getting reinforced in the composition class. (IEW All Things Fun and Fascinating)
I think person/pronouns are a hard concept --- I know that my kids are having a hard time with it, too. I just have to give them LOTS of examples.

[CherryBlossomMJ]

We loved our trip and have returned since. Good educational resources in the book store/ gift shop too.

https://www.instagram.com/p/7xqWV6g7...d=es1kf865ve9g

[KF2000]

Hi Callie!
I hope I can add to the ideas you have gotten already. I have added my responses below.

Son, almost 10: excellent memory and reading comprehension, reads chapter books fluently, struggles with writing very slowly and math is harder for him. Because he writes so slowly, he does most of his work orally. He is working through NAC, starting with book 1.

Daughter, almost 8.5: quick at pretty much everything, writes pages in journals for fun, gets math quickly, probably not quite as strong in reading comprehension

My Questions (feel free to just answer one. I've been storing these up for a while!)
1. I've read that it is not good to combine the kids. It is working fine so far, But I want to meet each of them where they're at, while still setting a challenging bar. I don't want to hold my son's ability to process what he is learning mentally back until his fine motor skills catch up. But I do want to him to practice those so he can be a fast writer. I try to keep them evenly paced by having her write answers, while my son speaks them. Are there any curriculum changes I should look into to address this?

The descriptions of your children fit right into one of the key reasons we often encourage families to put each child into his or her own curriculum rather than trying to keep them together. A great suggestion that has become a standard around here is to place your child at the level of his or her weakest "R" - which basically means that whatever is your child's "weakest link" in school is the one that should get the most attention. But that doesn't mean the only way to address that is to use two different levels for your children.

It does mean that it would be good to give each of them enough "space" to get to work on the specific skills they need to the most (and without having a sibling passing them by). So this may mean using the same Core, but working with them on specific subjects at separate times. Math, definitely, is one that I would separate since it sounds like they have different "speeds," but another one I think is important to give them individual attention is literature. Since one is good at reading but not writing, and the other is good at writing but may have some comprehension struggles, this may be the best subject to give them the chance to work on their weakest "R." The rest of the Core and your other subjects are things you could probably continue together.

Rather than allowing them to each do the part they are already good at, they each need to be really focusing on the parts they are NOT good at...which is going to require a lot of patience and effort both on their part, and on yours. This is why it may be best to have them one-on-one to do those activities.

2. I feel like 3M moves slowly in some areas, like Greek Myths and Latin. Granted I don't do every subject yet, but is this a common perception? My children do not seem to need all the review built into the curriculum manual.

I would be patient. You are still early on in the "year" and the pace is very gradual, so it is easy for it to feel "light" in the beginning. Also keep in mind that you can move more quickly through the courses if your children are really, truly, keeping up with mastering things. Just do more of the check boxes each week. But I would not jump to that just yet. I would work on setting good patterns of over-learning the material so that they have a chance for their confidence to grow - especially if they have areas like writing or math that make them feel less-than-confident. If every subject is as challenging as possible, children begin to think that school is simply hard, or worse, they begin to form negative self-images. Having some things that are easy to learn or that proceed at a gentle pace helps balance out those more challenging parts.

3. Do you add things to lessons to make them come more alive? Like Greek gods family tree or mammals posters/printables?
There are some enrichment ideas in a lot of the guides, and my kids will do the ones they feel like doing. But the way you asked this question has me thinking of your CM background. And while you might be able to find some great ideas to add to your study that feels more in keeping with what you have done with CM, keep in mind that much of the "extras" moms work so hard to provide, and that add more time to the school day, do very little to increase what a child actually knows. The great thing about the MP schedule is that each plan provides a "just right" amount of work to do well in the course, and a clear way to know when you can be DONE every day - to then either pursue other interests, or to got into further depth just for fun...but not for more "school."

4. I have LC flashcards, review box cards, Greek Myths cards, and recitation. It seems like there are some overlapping pieces in here. I haven't yet taken the time to sort through and see where a recitation fact is already covered in Greek myths cards, but perhaps someone can enlighten me.

Flash cards are great for personal study, usually mostly vocabulary. Children should be using those on a regular basis. The Recitation and the Review Box material are not identical, but they serve the same purpose - which is to help students review the material they are learning in all of their courses. You can pick which one of those you prefer and stick with it, or you can alternate using them if you want to keep up with both. It's really up to you to choose.

5. I have noticed that some of the grammar seems to be a big leap. The concept of person in Latin was a big one for my kids. They figured it out, but it was totally new to them. I'm wondering what foundational parts of second grade my kids missed versus what is actually new 3rd grade material. For instance, my children have never done enough work with pronouns to REALLY know them, yet when we learned person for Latin, that knowledge was pretty important. So, do MP second graders spend a lot of time on parts of speech?

Second graders learn parts of speech in Prima Latina, and I imagine the new English Grammar Practice book has some work on that as well (I am guessing because it is brand new and I haven't seen it). But LC is not dependent on your child having learned that ahead of time. It is okay that your children had to learn it with LC. They are not expected to have full comprehension of these concepts right now. They need to know enough so that they can recognize different endings and translate simple things in their LC work, but it is perfectly fine to take it at face value. Their understanding will deepen as they mature, and as they continue to work with these concepts both in Latin and in their EGR work.

I know that this a bunch of questions! I probably have more than I can't remember. Thank you for your time,

Callie

I hope that helps a bit more! and that you will return if you think of any more questions!
AMDG,
Sarah

[cdoran]

Oh my goodness! This is all such helpful advice. I will be re-reading as I continue to teach my kids. Today I did think of some further follow-up questions:

1. For my son (the slow writer) I would like to do the minimum writing required, but how do I know what that is? I had read in the forum of people doing many questions orally, but clearly he needs to do some writing, so how do I know the minimum? Is this where the SC 5/6 lesson plans would work well for him and me?

I already started splitting them up and liking it! But I need to work on our schedule.

Callie

[enbateau]

I only have one kid writing, so take my input for what it's worth. When I see a really good question that has sequencing (what did Character X do before he got to the barn?) or a higher order thinking skills (inference or deduction), that's when I like to enforce writing. If the question asks who was at some event or to whom was something given or where did some action occur, I don't need her to copy names or places from the book. Now, I remember there being some note in MP3 telling students about which questions are on the quizzes and tests so they can highlight and study them. I can't remember if that's in the CM or TG. Either way, I would definitely make sure he writes the answers to those so that he can study on his own time. I'll be playing by ear the level of writing in 3rd this fall. I require a lot of writing until life gets complicated, and then I'm careful not to aggravate her. My DD enjoyed writing until I started adding more oral. Once she knew it was negotiable, she started negotiating and begging. I wish I had waited longer.

[howiecram]

Oh my goodness! This is all such helpful advice. I will be re-reading as I continue to teach my kids. Today I did think of some further follow-up questions:

1. For my son (the slow writer) I would like to do the minimum writing required, but how do I know what that is? I had read in the forum of people doing many questions orally, but clearly he needs to do some writing, so how do I know the minimum? Is this where the SC 5/6 lesson plans would work well for him and me?

I already started splitting them up and liking it! But I need to work on our schedule.

Callie

Yes! However, you would need to change 1 thing, your writing. sC 5/6 uses Intro to Comp vice All Things Fun and Facinating. You may find this more successful anyway and it is not terribly expensive.