New to MP and not sure what grade levels to start with

[RA2018]

Hello,

We are looking to start MP for the first time and have a few questions. We are not completely new to the Charlotte Mason / Classical style and have done some piecing together of curriculum in the past. However, in an attempt to streamline things this past year we decided to use CLE for most of our main subjects and although it has worked, it's not quite what we are looking for. We have been using CWH and Elemental Science as well, which is feeling a bit all over the place for us. After looking at MP I think this may be what we need. I should also mention that we are a Catholic family (hence the CWH) and that we have not previously done any Latin, although that probably won't matter much if we are just now starting with MP. That said, I am not sure where to place our kiddos just yet...

Our oldest ds is somewhere between 3rd and 4th, should be going into 4th if we were following the public school system. I am wondering if we should start with the 3rd grade level for him since we are new? I have looked at the R&S math books and the placement tests for him and was trying to decide if he should do the 3rd or 4th grade level? He is a quick learner, but needs some work on multiplication and division. He did ok with both the 3rd / 4th grade placement tests, other than some of the multiplication and division questions. I am wondering if there is enough review of these concepts in the 4th grade level book that we can just cover what he doesn't know yet or should we just start working through the 3rd grade book on the things we need to work on before advancing? (We do plan on working on some of this over the summer.) Also, I am wondering about the workload, as he is a fair reader/ writer, but we could work to improve in this area. I did have him read part of A Cricket in Times Square (on Amazon), and he was able to comprehend it. I used the sample pages from the workbooks to ask him questions, which seemed to go well...if that helps? Just not sure, since this will probably be more work than he is used to..not saying that is a bad thing! Something else I noticed was that it looked like Christian Studies I starts will lesson 15 and I wasn't sure if that is correct, or if any other subjects are that way? If we do end up doing 4th, would we need to catch up on anything?

Next up, our second dd just turned 6 and is finishing up CLE 1st grade and doing well with it. She seems a bit ahead for her age, but I don't want to push her too hard if MP's 2nd grade is more than she is ready for. I am not sure how well CLE's program aligns with MP, so I am wondering if she should do the 1st grade level of MP? She did read the sample of the Courage of Sarah Noble and did well with it. She is definitely a strong reader, but given her age, I am not sure of how the rest of the 2nd grade level would work for her. Also, I am wondering how the supplemental materials tie in to the rest of the curriculum? If we are just starting MP will we have time for them? Do we need all of them?


Some other things...

Are there any subjects / books that overlap? Do you combine anything with your students?
Any Catholic suggestions?
Are there any science experiments and if so, what sort of supplies are needed?

Sorry for all the questions, and I think that's it for now...Thanks in advance for the advice!!!!

Tandra

[howiecram]

Hi and welcome!

I think your rising 4th grader would fit well in “4th for New Users”. R&S does spend the first 40 lessons reviewing. At least they do in 1-3. I think your rising 1st grader would do great with 1st grade, if she does not have much experience writing answers. (With your help).

https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...a-press-users/

(I waiting on a child at an appointment, so sorry for short response)

[enbateau]

I would be tempted to get ahold of R&S Arithmetic 3 to start now, going through the fact families at an accelerated pace to really cement those facts through the summer, then get 4NU to start in the fall. All R&S has 20 lessons of review, but it goes very quickly, and I wouldn't rely on it to learn any unmemorized facts. If you're planning to start in the fall, a 3rd grade novel study might be nice to go through in the meantime. I would do Charlotte's Web. It's a right of passage for childhood, second only to Farmer Boy, which is so fun and full of early Americana. Getting a feel for attributing quotes, coming up with synonyms for vocab words and answering comprehension questions in complete sentences will make for a smooth transition to grade 4. You could also get the read-alouds from Greek Mythology to give him a good base.

I think your 1st grader will love MP1. My daughter did those before placing into MP2, and it was a great segue.

Welcome! MP has been a happy resting place for so many of us who have started out half CM, half Classical/WTM. Both of my kids love Latin. It has blessed our family to learn the prayers and sacred vocabulary of the early Church.

[Floridamom]

There are plenty of Catholic families on here and some great threads in that regard. Searching Catholic in the search field should find several with some great info. I'd add a link, but still haven't figured out how.

[RA2018]

I would be tempted to get ahold of R&S Arithmetic 3 to start now, going through the fact families at an accelerated pace to really cement those facts through the summer, then get 4NU to start in the fall. All R&S has 20 lessons of review, but it goes very quickly, and I wouldn't rely on it to learn any unmemorized facts. If you're planning to start in the fall, a 3rd grade novel study might be nice to go through in the meantime. I would do Charlotte's Web. It's a right of passage for childhood, second only to Farmer Boy, which is so fun and full of early Americana. Getting a feel for attributing quotes, coming up with synonyms for vocab words and answering comprehension questions in complete sentences will make for a smooth transition to grade 4. You could also get the read-alouds from Greek Mythology to give him a good base.

I think your 1st grader will love MP1. My daughter did those before placing into MP2, and it was a great segue.

Welcome! MP has been a happy resting place for so many of us who have started out half CM, half Classical/WTM. Both of my kids love Latin. It has blessed our family to learn the prayers and sacred vocabulary of the early Church.

I was thinking the same thing about possibly getting the R&S Arithmetic 3 to work through over the summer. I hadn't thought about getting some of the 3rd grade novels, but I agree that those you mentioned would be a great start before 4th. Glad to hear that your family is loving Latin! Thanks for the suggestions!

[RA2018]

howiecram Thanks for your input! I am not sure that my daughter has enough writing experience for 2nd just yet. I am thinking from all of the suggestions and reviewing that 1st may be a good way to get into MP without her getting too frustrated.

Floridamom No problem with the link. I am still new to this as well, so learning as I go! Thanks for your help!

[KF2000]

Hi Tandra, and welcome! It sounds like you have gotten a good start toward making plans for next year. There are a few things I was wondering about your son, such as his age. How old would he be at the start of next year? Does he know cursive? How much time per day does he currently spend on school? Is he a wiggly sort of boy who struggles to do written work, or a pretty easy-going guy, or is he a self-driven sort of kid? I am wondering these things because the difference in his maturity level and his personality will have a big impact on the pace that would be good for him to try next year.

The difference is that if you choose third grade, you will start many subjects which he would have two years to complete - over both third and fourth grades. That is why you see the lesson plans of fourth grade start out with lesson 15 and whatnot. Many of the core subjects get started in third, and get wrapped up in fourth. This is a nice, gentle pace that helps a young child gradually get used to a more writing-focused curriculum for the Grammar-years. If you go ahead and put him into the Fourth for New Users, these same courses will all be done at a one-year pace (translation: much faster). So the biggest thing I would use to make the decision of which one to use would be how much school your son can handle next year. There would be a difference of at least an hour per day between the two options. If you choose third, both third and fourth will be “lighter,” which gives him until 5th before he’s hitting a higher expectation. If you choose 4NU, he will have a higher expectation placed on him sooner - which is fine if you think he’s the sort of worker who can handle it. But if he still needs to learn cursive, is not currently used to answering questions in complete sentences, is only used to doing two hours or so of work per day, or is a challenge to get to stay on task, then I would recommend doing the third grade core so that he can have more time to build up those necessary abilities. And if you choose third, you could always move at his pace in math. If he flies through it, you can simply start the fourth grade book as soon as he is ready. (And don’t worry about his grade level; by the time a child gets to high school, it really doesn’t matter what “grade” he is in. You can tailor the high school portion to whatever he is ready to do.)

As for your daughter, it sounds like you are leaning toward first grade, which sounds really good. It’s a lot for your children to adjust to, but it’s also a lot for YOU to adjust to - so giving yourselves a slightly easier year compared to a year where everyone feels really challenged (and possibly overwhelmed) sounds like a good idea to me. I want you guys to thrive - not drown!

As for the extras, science does not require any special materials. The curriculum focuses on building knowledge and familiarity with the natural world - which requires no special equipment! Yay! And the lists of supplemental books are there for your convenience. If you can afford them, and they would be helpful toward building your home library, then they are a great deal. But you can also use your library, or use books on similar topics you already have - that sort of thing is flexible.

And as for Catholic resources, we are actually looking forward to the first couple of levels of a Catholic religion supplement to be released from MP very soon, which would be great for your 1st/2nd grade daughter. They are working on having K-2 available, and we keep hearing it should be soon! As for your older child, the path the MP supplement is using is the Faith and Life series, along with memorizing the Baltimore Catechism, so if you would like suggestions on that, we can help out. There are many Catholic families here who have found MP to be a great fit.

I hope this helps a bit more in your decision-making, and again, welcome!

AMDG,
Sarah

[CherryBlossomMJ]

Sarah, I wish you were advising when I was getting started. All these words are gold.

[RA2018]

Sarah, thank you for your advice. You have given me a lot to think about. I did not realize that the 4NU would be a faster pace, although that does not worry me either. My ds will be turning 9 in August, and we have been doing cursive over this last year, which he enjoys. He is the wiggly sort and would much rather do oral review over seat work. However, both of them are answering questions with complete sentences, which is a part of the current program they are in. We do some copywork in addition to their current workbooks, but I'm not sure how that would compare to MP. As for the Catholic supplement, and in addition to CWH, we have been using Baltimore Catechism 1, The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and other saints books we have on the shelves. Hope that helps clarify things a bit!

[KF2000]

Tandra,
I am glad that I can offer some help. It does sound as though your son may be in good shape to begin 4NU then. One more thing I will add is that when folks are getting started, a really good idea is to take the first week or two of the Curricumlum Guide and do them at half-pace so that you have time to get used to everything. Taking this extra time in the beginning helps everyone begin to learn the routines of the subjects and can make you feel more confidence sooner.

*and Hi, Margaret! Glad it was helpful to you too!*

AMDG,
Sarah

[Eve]

Hi Tandra,
We are one of the 'odd' families that has used CLE Math since first grade and CLE LA after using Horizons up until 3 rd. My daughter is now in 4 th. We also have used MP since K. I say we are odd because most people on this forum aren't lovers of CLE& don't keep it up after discovering MP but my daughter won't let it go! Lol! That is just to let you know the familiarity we have with the questions you are asking. I don't know how your daughter has done with CLE 1 , but if she moved through it with relative ease , I would think she would be ready for MP 2 nd . CLE is pretty advanced and although my daughter did MP alongside CLE , I feel like CLE 1 st grade prepares a child well for MP 2 nd. I also feel that the built in review in CLE leads to mastery in a very clever way. She KNOWS her grammar , is a natural speller and she can read above grade level but we don't do that because we don't want to miss any of the books ! As for math , my child is doing well with mastery of math facts but CLE math takes forever each day! It is a lot of work , but it is working! I have also attempted to switch to R&S but the layout of CLE is easier to me , as well as understanding the teachers manual. I would switch if my child was as young as yours , I do trust MP and their reason for choosing it and all of the forum users who share their reasons for switching to it , but I definitely don't think you need to back up to R&S first grade . R&S moves a lot slower than CLE and your child should be well prepared for R&S 2 , if she completed grade 1 of CLE.

[Meadowlark]

Just wanted to add a few thoughts. First, I don't think you're 1st grader would have a problem with MP 2. I don't see a ton of writing in MP 2 actually. For the lit guides, you start out very gently just asking for a good sentence and then write it on a whiteboard or in their book, and they copy it. And certainly not all of the questions. We do about half. So it's really not that tedious at all. I think based on what you've said, 2nd grade would be fine. And...If she did fine with The Courage of Sarah Noble, then I think she'd be more than ready for the lit in grade 2. Animal tales and Prairie School are both easier than that one and come before, so she wouldn't be doing Sarah until 1/2 way through the year anyway. As for CLE, we use CLE math too after Rod and Staff failed miserably for us. One thing that we do that I wanted to share is to have your kids work on the "I remember" sections independently. This is something my kids like to get up and do right away while I'm still getting ready for the day. Then when it's time for math, we just do the checklist, review the new section, do flashcards and I check their work. It's SO easy peasy for me, and it breaks up their math into 2 sections so it's not so overwhelming. Eve-my kids love it too! The enrichment is just that-enrichment. You can do it or not do it and it won't affect much of anything.

[Eve]

Hi Meadowlark !
Thank you , your response was helpful to me , perhaps breaking math into two sections would be better just for a brain break! My daughter does most of CLE independently already. May I ask what grades your children are in and how much time do you allot for math each day?

[RA2018]

Eve and Meadowlark, thank you for adding to this discussion, it definitely helps knowing you have used CLE and can understand where I'm coming from! I am curious if anyone can give me rough estimate on how long R&S Arithmetic takes just to compare it to CLE. I am glad you added how you break it up, Meadowlark, because I tend to agree with Eve that it seems to drag on for us. I agree that it is very thorough and I like that, but I am just trying to decide whether or not to switch. I have considered R&S in the past, but ended up with CLE just because we had heard good things about their Learning to Read and LA programs, so we gave them a try. It seems like those that use R&S really like it. If anyone here can add their opinion, feel free!


Also, Meadowlark, thank you for the clarification on the 2nd grade level. If it starts out with simple sentences and builds from there, even with reading, then that may be a good fit for her. Still trying to decide!