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    Requested idea for Classical Teacher article

    The idea of narration often comes up in the Facebook group and we have had great discussions on narration vs the student guides. I would LOVE to see an article by our literature gurus here discussing the goal of the student guides and how it differs from narration, especially how it takes the student BEYOND what they get by simply narrating what they remember. I would love to see an outline of sorts of how this plays out in the different grades- such as what skills are being taught at each level, when they move from simple comprehension to seeing deeper ideas to analysis to rhetoric and how the guides bring them to a place they might not have reached on their own and WHY this is important. Maybe carry it over to other subjects and how the guides help teach the student how to know what is important and how to carry over important facts/ideas from year to year.
    i think so many people think the guides are written AR style questions designed to test if the student read and understood the basic plot. Many don’t use the guides thinking they are busy work. I’d really like to see MP goal with the guides in writing in an article. On our fb groups, we often share articles about the MP approach to history or why teach Latin. Those articles have helped so many understand MP. Please do similar articles specifically about HOW Mp teaches literature. I know you have had articles about the importance of reading quality literature, now can we have the specifics of how and why you do what you do, because what you do is so incredible it needs to be promoted!!!
    Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
    DD, 27, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
    DS, 25, BS '18 mechanical engineering
    DS, 23, BS '20 Chemsitry, pursuing phd at Wash U
    (DDIL married #3 in 2020, MPOA grad, BA '20 philosophy, pusrsing phd at SLU)
    DS, 21, Physics and math major
    DD, 18, dyslexic, 12th grade dual enrolled
    DS, 14, future engineer/scientist/ world conquerer 9th MPOA diploma student
    DD, 8 , 2nd Future astronaut, robot building space artist

    #2
    Brilliant, Debbie. So needed.
    Festina lentē,
    Jessica P

    2021-2022 • 12th year HSing • 10th year MP
    DS 12th • AP Latin online, DE Calculus & Physics, HLN - Headed to Hillsdale College next fall
    DD 10th • HLN, Latin online
    DD 7th • HLN & Home
    DS 4th • HLN & Home
    Me • Third Form for Adults, MPOA; Memoria College

    Teaching TFL and co-directing @
    Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

    Comment


      #3
      Yes! This is the reason why that thread about literature guides still has me wondering whether I really want to use them. I think I understand the rationale for using them, but when faced with limited time, I do still have a hard time seeing why it would be necessary. I see them as nice but possible not necessary. I, of course, have no personal evidence for this view, other than the whole not-wanting-to-ruin-the-love-of-reading by overanalyzing books. Even though we only do a few each year, is the time we have with our kids best spent on this? I think an article could help clear this up--something we could go back to ourselves to make the decision of whether or not to purchase the guides each year.
      2019-20
      DS--9, 3M/4M
      DD--7, mix of 1 and 2
      DD--5, MP K
      DS--3
      DS--1

      Comment


        #4
        momgineer
        Senior Member
        momgineer
        Emilylovesbooks
        Senior Member
        Emilylovesbooks, you guys might want to see what Michael just posted on this thread: https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum...-order-minimum

        Particularly the article listed for page 40
        I can’t wait to read Leigh’s take!
        Jennifer
        Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

        2021-2022
        DS18: Almost done!
        DS17: MP, MPOA
        DS15: MP, MPOA
        DS12: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
        DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
        DD9: SC3
        DD6: MPK

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
          momgineer
          Senior Member
          momgineer
          Emilylovesbooks
          Senior Member
          Emilylovesbooks, you guys might want to see what Michael just posted on this thread: https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum...-order-minimum

          Particularly the article listed for page 40
          I can’t wait to read Leigh’s take!
          Wow, I didn't even think about the fact that the sample I posted revealed all the articles. And since I've been traveling to conventions this month, I haven't yet had time to even read the titles of the articles in the new issue. Now I'm excited to read Leigh's article too!

          Comment


            #6
            So funny that you post this right now, as I was thinking about this today. I went to GHC in Greenville last week, and I find it interesting to see and hear the wide spectrum of thought, even within the "classical" homeschool realm.

            I came to MP most recently from a Charlotte Mason background where neither the teacher nor the literature guide are ever to get between the child and the book. The child is thought to be wise enough on his own to determine what he needs to get from his reading. Well, I can tell you from experience, for many kids, that breaks down on several levels.

            Therefore, I find it confusing for classical educators to be quoting Charlotte Mason in a classical panel.

            Sounds like Leigh's article is coming at just the right time.

            Comment


              #7
              This is just from my own personal experience with my child. She has done the MP Lit . Guides since first grade , she is now in 4 th. She has answered all of the questions in writing from the beginning and we have really only skipped enrichment on busy days . She absolutely loves the Lit . Guides which she does almost independently accept for the questions where the answers are not quite on the surface and you have to go inside of yourself a bit more to answer the 'why' of something. I find that these guides teach such an invaluable lesson in how to do that and how to write grammatically well. She uses CLE for grammar but the Lit. Guides give her a chance to put all that grammar knowledge into written practice. Then she is using SC3 American History w/ the Enrichmnent book which is full of narration prompts , a completely different skill which is actually turning out not to be that simple and proving to be invaluable as well. Learning to retell things in order and not give so much of the less important details is something she has learned from narration using this group of American History books. I have found both methods to be beneficial although not in the sense that I would center her entire way of learning around narration . She also does not love narration , she finds it more tedious to have to tell me everything she just read than to go off and engage in the Lit . Guide activities . Everyone learns differently but both skills have been worthwhile for us and both methods we have been laid out for us with MP.

              Comment


                #8
                Excuse my error, I meant 'except' , not accept !?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Eve View Post
                  This is just from my own personal experience with my child. She has done the MP Lit . Guides since first grade , she is now in 4 th. She has answered all of the questions in writing from the beginning and we have really only skipped enrichment on busy days . She absolutely loves the Lit . Guides which she does almost independently accept for the questions where the answers are not quite on the surface and you have to go inside of yourself a bit more to answer the 'why' of something. I find that these guides teach such an invaluable lesson in how to do that and how to write grammatically well. She uses CLE for grammar but the Lit. Guides give her a chance to put all that grammar knowledge into written practice. Then she is using SC3 American History w/ the Enrichmnent book which is full of narration prompts , a completely different skill which is actually turning out not to be that simple and proving to be invaluable as well. Learning to retell things in order and not give so much of the less important details is something she has learned from narration using this group of American History books. I have found both methods to be beneficial although not in the sense that I would center her entire way of learning around narration . She also does not love narration , she finds it more tedious to have to tell me everything she just read than to go off and engage in the Lit . Guide activities . Everyone learns differently but both skills have been worthwhile for us and both methods we have been laid out for us with MP.
                  Eve,

                  Thanks for sharing. That is beautiful to see how the skills learned in the lit guides and the narration skills work together. Definitely see the benefits of both.

                  My struggle is with those who say you should ONLY do narration, but I think there's room for both without the fear of destroying my child's love of reading.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Dittoing RuthAnn. We had a chance to talk in person at an MP conference in SC and both came to the conclusion that the CM approach we had been using fell way short of the goal. I wouldn't even say I was fully convinced of the merit of lit guides when I started MP2. Now that we're a few weeks from the end, I'm flabbergasted at the gains my daughter has made. It's the process of reading a targeted question, looking for where in the text it's answered, and seeing how sometimes our memory fails us in the particulars, so going back to what the texts says either overtly or implied is all that really matters. Sure, you could answer those questions orally (we rarely do), but how much spelling, punctuation, and grammar that is engaged is innumerable. It's forcing my child with some executive functioning weakness to plan what she is going to write, spell it out in letters and then form them with tons and tons of cursive handwriting practice. For the cursive handwriting practice alone they are worth it. I have seen my daughter move from frustrated to encouraged to embarrassed to proud (in regards to cursive). Every time I lower the standard and require less in the name of making her feel better because she isn't good at something, I never give her the chance to get better. How do you get better? By doing. This isn't practical for those with special needs, but that's why Simply Classical has a different approach.
                    Mama of 2, teacher of 3

                    SY 21/22
                    5A w/ SFL & CC Narrative class
                    MP1

                    Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A
                    SC B, SC C, SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I went to GHC StL last night. They had the new spring mag on the tables. Wahoo! Our mail is soooo slow here. While I was waiting for my kiddos to come out of the Andrew Peterson concert, I was thumbing through and saw Leigh's article. I instantly thought of Debbie's request. Seriously. So timely! Great article. We LOVE the lit guides.

                      Debbie, I should have brought it to you today to read. Didn't think of that until now.
                      Katie

                      DS 17: Senior!
                      DD 14: 10th
                      DD 10: 6th
                      Twin DD's 8: 3rd
                      Mix of MP, Co-op, TAN and traveling the U.S

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Katie View Post
                        I went to GHC StL last night. They had the new spring mag on the tables. Wahoo! Our mail is soooo slow here. While I was waiting for my kiddos to come out of the Andrew Peterson concert, I was thumbing through and saw Leigh's article. I instantly thought of Debbie's request. Seriously. So timely! Great article. We LOVE the lit guides.

                        Debbie, I should have brought it to you today to read. Didn't think of that until now.
                        Agreed, Leigh Lowe's article was great and very timely. I look forward to getting to the point that we are using literature guides. I almost even picked one up today for my favorite book when I saw it at the TTD conference. Just because! There are a few more articles that look really good too once the kids get to bed.
                        21/22 - 4th MP Year, Dad & Quadrivium Teacher
                        S - 7, 2nd MP @ HLN & Home
                        D - 5, K MP @ HLN & Home
                        S - 4, Jr K MP @ Home

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I get such a kick out of the fact that my daughter looks forward to reading the Classical Teacher almost as much as I do! So glad it came before the weekend so that we both could enjoy it during our restful Sunday afternoon reading time!
                          Michaela
                          Daughter: Age 11 MP 6A (MPOA for TFL, 6th grade math, and composition)
                          Son: Age 6 1st Grade MP Traditional Spelling, Literature, Math, and Handwriting
                          for 2019/2020 school year

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I still didn’t get mine, but patience is a virtue, or something like that! Katie- it’s probably better you didn’t show me at co-op because then I would be more impatient! Perfect timing on the article though.
                            Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
                            DD, 27, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
                            DS, 25, BS '18 mechanical engineering
                            DS, 23, BS '20 Chemsitry, pursuing phd at Wash U
                            (DDIL married #3 in 2020, MPOA grad, BA '20 philosophy, pusrsing phd at SLU)
                            DS, 21, Physics and math major
                            DD, 18, dyslexic, 12th grade dual enrolled
                            DS, 14, future engineer/scientist/ world conquerer 9th MPOA diploma student
                            DD, 8 , 2nd Future astronaut, robot building space artist

                            Comment

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