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    #16
    Originally posted by makinmemories
    Michael Thank you for that response, PDF, and insight from Cindy! You are saying that in the future the 9A core will include the Holt Biology? I think this would put us where we needed to be by then.
    Correct. In fact, I believe both our regular and accelerated tracks will have Biology in 9th, or at least Physical Science will eventually be removed from 9th in both tracks. I don't know the specifics yet. Sorry!
    Michael
    Memoria Press

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      #17
      When Biology is moved to 9th, Introductory Physics is omitted. This makes for a more difficult science sequence 9th-12th, because Introductory Physics is a golden opportunity to learn how to use significant digits, write lab reports (with tables and graphs embedded), and apply algebra to real science problems. Biology has a great deal of content and requires good reading and critical thinking / test-taking skills. Many 9th graders are not quite ready for these challenges, especially if increasing difficulty in Latin, Greek, English, and math at the same time. Introductory Physics provides a wonderful bridge year for most students.

      Our chemistry teacher finds that students who take Introductory Physics in 9th do better in chemistry than those who take biology in 9th, because they have this extra year of practice with the skills mentioned above.

      I don't really see a disadvantage to delaying biology until 10th, unless you have a super-star like Jen (formerly) who will be ready for college science courses in 12th grade. My advanced physics students do better if they have already completed pre-calculus before advanced physics, so I prefer they take adv. physics senior year with calculus. Adv. Physics can be taken concurrently with precalculus, but it is more difficult.
      Cindy Davis
      Science and Math teacher at Highlands Latin School - Indianapolis
      ds-25 college graduate: independent young adult
      ds-24 college graduate: 2nd year med school
      dd-22 college senior: Nursing

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Cindy in Indy View Post
        When Biology is moved to 9th, Introductory Physics is omitted.


        Personally? Here is what I think MP ought to consider as the sequence for the Moderated Homeschool tracks (Debbie's Non Science Major track from above). It IS the sequence in traditional public schools now as the non-honors track:

        9th: Intro Physics
        10th : Biology
        11th: Chemistry
        12th: Science of choice, but most students would benefit from cal based physics here. Even my Business Major son was *required* to take calculus for his degree. Seeing the material in high school has tremendous value.


        And there is NOTHING wrong with this track. The student has seen "the big three" in high school, and will have earned three lab-based science credits. The fourth year becomes "student's choice" depending on goals and outcomes moving toward high school graduation.



        This makes for a more difficult science sequence 9th-12th, because Introductory Physics is a golden opportunity to learn how to use significant digits, write lab reports (with tables and graphs embedded), and apply algebra to real science problems. Biology has a great deal of content and requires good reading and critical thinking / test-taking skills. Many 9th graders are not quite ready for these challenges, especially if increasing difficulty in Latin, Greek, English, and math at the same time. Introductory Physics provides a wonderful bridge year for most students.

        Our chemistry teacher finds that students who take Introductory Physics in 9th do better in chemistry than those who take biology in 9th, because they have this extra year of practice with the skills mentioned above.


        Yes, chemistry teachers have long recognized this and try to push for this sequence in science departments. As I said above, the lynch-pin of the entire high school math/science sequencing is to have the student cognitively ready to APPLY Algebra in high school chemistry. Strong math students *could* take Algebra II concurrently with chemistry, but many students can't: they just can move from seeing multiple variables in math class to seeing them in chemistry and applying the knowledge to the multi-step word problems of chemistry. In my last classroom, the B students in Alg II who were concurrently enrolled in chemistry were lucky to be getting a C in chemistry. Many of them were desperate to be done with the course because they had maxed out their abilities in math, so moving to thermodynamics in the 4th quarter, for instance was a death knell for their final grades in the course. So sad and so preventable.




        I don't really see a disadvantage to delaying biology until 10th, unless you have a super-star like Jen (formerly) who will be ready for college science courses in 12th grade. My advanced physics students do better if they have already completed pre-calculus before advanced physics, so I prefer they take adv. physics senior year with calculus. Adv. Physics can be taken concurrently with precalculus, but it is more difficult.

        Ah yes, my oldest can never be used as a measuring stick for others' progress in math and science. I try to share my experiences with him to highlight how a homeschool mom *should* creatively solve problems at home, not how to sequence her own kids. Heavens, no.

        But what is highlighted from Cindy's remarks is essentially what I am suggesting: math NEEDS to be considered far and away as the higher priority before selecting an appropriate science course. And math cannot simply be forged through, with imperfect understanding. It is the relationships within mathematics which allow for the multistep problem solving processes of chemistry, which then allow for the calculus based concepts of physics.

        It is impossible to "skip" this step in the sequencing of math and science for any student, regardless of what "track" you think your child is on. The child's progress in math, with the highest possible level of understanding, will be the limiting factor in reaching the higher levels of science. At the higher levels, science IS applied mathematics.






        Jen




        DS, 26 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace), recently completed the design and execution of unhackable military software... in his spare time.

        DS, 24 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

        DD, 21 yrs, Senior in Education at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC

        DS, 12 yrs, currently attending a classical school which would give HLS a run for its money.

        All homeschooled.

        Me: retired after 16 years of continuous homeschooling. Ahhh....

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Jen (formerly) in Japan View Post



          Personally? Here is what I think MP ought to consider as the sequence for the Moderated Homeschool tracks (Debbie's Non Science Major track from above). It IS the sequence in traditional public schools now as the non-honors track:

          9th: Intro Physics
          10th : Biology
          11th: Chemistry
          12th: Science of choice, but most students would benefit from cal based physics here. Even my Business Major son was *required* to take calculus for his degree. Seeing the material in high school has tremendous value.


          And there is NOTHING wrong with this track.

          It is impossible to "skip" this step in the sequencing of math and science for any student, regardless of what "track" you think your child is on. The child's progress in math, with the highest possible level of understanding, will be the limiting factor in reaching the higher levels of science. At the higher levels, science IS applied mathematics.


          Amen.

          My daughter is in 10th and is roughly following the track you mention above. I have disliked the physical science in 9th plans, but always assumed that they would move to intro physics in 9th once lesson plans were available. She will also be taking calculus and advanced physics even though she *thinks* she wants accounting or classics. One doesn’t really know their path in 10th grade :-). Now I just have to figure out where to have her take chemistry. I want a good lab component, but would rather not turn my kitchen into a chemistry lab (although I do have black soapstone countertops that are very reminiscent of a chemistry workbench). Toying with a semester of precalculus in the fall and a semester of chemistry at the local community college during the winter term.
          Dorinda

          For 2019-2020
          DD 16 - 11th with MPOA(AP Latin), Lukeion (Greek4 & Adv. NT Greek), Thinkwell (Economics and Chemistry), plus Pre-Calculus, American G’ment, Early Church History set, and British Lit
          DS 14 - 8th with MPOA(Fourth Form), CLRC(Intro Lit and Comp), plus Algebra, Field Biology, Classical Studies 1
          DS 11 - 6th with Right Start Level G online class
          DS 6 - 1st with Prima Latina

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