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When did the Third Form and Fourth Form lesson plans change?

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    When did the Third Form and Fourth Form lesson plans change?

    I bought the 6A curriculum manual last Feb (during free shipping!!!) and am using it this school year. It includes Third Form Latin and has the student do all the lessons including the Unit 5 review and take a final test. I recently received the 7A manual (yeah free shipping!!!) to use next school year and in looking it over, I noticed that Fourth Form plans spend three weeks doing three lessons from Third Form. At first I thought it was a typo until I read the Latin summary and it is on purpose. According to the summary, Third Form Latin lesson plans did not cover the last three lessons so they are done in Fourth Form year. Does that mean that they do not do the Unit 5 review or the Final test? And when did this change occur? I thought that plans I bought one year should flow seamlessly into the plans for the next year.
    In reality, I am not following the plans. I have always found Third Form plans to move way too fast and that my children tend to need 1 1/2 to 2 weeks per lessons for many of the lessons so I had just been plugging along at our own pace intending to take 3 years to do the these two Forms. But now I am wondering if the Third Form plans changed significantly from the ones I bought last year and should I take any of those changes into account as I plan our spread out pace. Should I go ahead and finish all of Third Form including Unit 5 review and final test before starting Fourth Form, or should I skip the last three lessons and the last review and no final test and proceed into Fourth Form doing the first four lessons, breaking to do the three skipped lessons in Third Form, and continuing with Fourth Form after that as the FF lesson plans state? Is there a big benefit to doing it the "new" way? What was the reason for the change? If it is simply to give students more time on certain lessons, that is irrelevant to me since we are already slowing down more than that, but if it is to enable the student to learn better in a new order, then I should consider the change. Help?
    Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
    DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
    DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
    DS, 21, chemistry major
    DS, 18, Physics major
    DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
    DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
    DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

    #2
    Good morning Debbie,

    First of all, that's wonderful you have the time to spread out TFL and 4FL over more than two years in order to really cement all of the content! If that extended pacing works for your family, there is no reason to change it. Many families, however, are not able to extend these last two Forms as you have done. At the same time,

    [QUOTE=Third Form Latin Lesson Plans]Third Form Latin covers some of the most difficult aspects of the Latin language, and many students need more time to absorb all of the material. Therefore, we have adjusted the pacing of Third Form Latin, and consequently Fourth Form Latin, as follows:

    During the “Third Form Latin year,” students end at Lesson 28, with the remaining three lessons covered the following year. The new pace also omits some Workbook exercises due to the sheer amount of written work in Third Form. However, we have been careful to schedule enough practice to encourage mastery of the material, and the unassigned exercises are included as a review at the end of the year to prepare students for the Final Exam. From the firmer foundation provided by this new pace, students can more confidently progress to the final year of the Latin Forms Series."

    Again, if you can complete all of TFL by spending more time on it, you will be providing a very firm foundation for 4FL and beyond. When we say "firmer" above, we mean that this new pace will provide a firmer foundation than rushing through TFL in order to complete it in one academic year.

    This change was made in two stages, with TFL first and 4FL later during the "off-season," in order to prevent anyone from running into the problem of the TFL plans not flowing seamlessly into the 4FL plans. Of course, some people will inevitably still end up with the "wrong" 4FL plans as you did. However, if you would like to continue with your schedule, I'd be happy to send you the old 4FL lesson plans. Because you have the extra time, there is no reason you need to switch to our new pacing.

    I hope the above explanation has helped. If not, or if you or anyone has any further questions, please don'ts hesitate to post!
    Michael
    Memoria Press

    Comment


      #3
      I assume that the online academy will continue to use the original 3rd form in a year schedule. Is that correct? That would be something that should probably be mentioned for those looking to switch to the online academy for 4th form.
      Dorinda

      For 2019-2020
      DD 16 - 11th with MPOA(AP Latin), Lukeion (Greek4 & Adv. NT Greek), Thinkwell (Economics and Chemistry), plus Pre-Calculus, American G’ment, Early Church History set, and British Lit
      DS 14 - 8th with MPOA(Fourth Form), CLRC(Intro Lit and Comp), plus Algebra, Field Biology, Classical Studies 1
      DS 11 - 6th with Right Start Level G online class
      DS 6 - 1st with Prima Latina

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Mom2mthj View Post
        I assume that the online academy will continue to use the original 3rd form in a year schedule. Is that correct? That would be something that should probably be mentioned for those looking to switch to the online academy for 4th form.
        I'm not sure what MPOA will be doing, actually! I'll reach out to Mr. Piland and see what his plans are.

        ETA: Mr. Piland is currently on vacation, so it may be a bit before he can respond.
        Last edited by Michael; 02-28-2019, 08:52 AM.
        Michael
        Memoria Press

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you for this summary. You are correct that I am blessed to be able to spread out Third and Fourth Form! I took the advice of many on this forum and decided it is best to go for mastery than speed. Two of mine started Prima in 3rd (before core grade packages came out!) and should have finished Fourth Form in 8th but ended up finishing in 9th. We called that Latin 1 and my oldest went onto Henle 2 with the online academy for 10th. My current 9th grader will finish Fourth Form this year and is going to switch to an old translation course based on the Catholic Mass. She is dyslexic and struggles with Latin greatly. She is interested in the Latin Mass parts so we are going to go with that.
          My student that this is relevant to is in 6A and was just 11 in August so he is a young 6th doing advanced path. He has always been so far ahead in Latin because he voluntarily sat in on his sister's Latin lessons. Being dyslexic, we did a lot of drill and oral work with his sister and he picked it up. He is my memory master and Prima and LC are mostly memory so he breezed right through those in 2nd and 3rd. He started First Form in 4th and did great as long as we did the Latin to English drill orally. I always made him write out the English to Latin though. He did fine in Second Form but I started seeing laziness in his translations- if he had to keep track of more than one thing, he started ignoring those endings and making up the function of the word as he saw fit. He *could* do it correctly, but often didn't. Now in Third Form it is just way too much for his 11 year old brain to handle. In reality, public school would call him 5th grade and he is doing 6A so I figure its ok-he is immature for Third Form. We are actually taking a two month break after finishing unit 2 to do some immersion readers and Lingua Biblica so he can stop learning new grammar and focus on paying attention to those endings and using them correctly. I hope to still be able to finish Third and Fourth over a three year period (6,7,8) and be able to do Henle 2 in 9th, but even if we need to spread it out over four years instead of three, he will still end up where his siblings did- taking Henle 2 in 10th.
          It sounds like the changes were made to help slow Third Form down a small bit and since we are slowing it down a lot, we will continue to plus along in the standard order and not the lesson plan order. Thank you for the clarification.
          Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
          DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
          DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
          DS, 21, chemistry major
          DS, 18, Physics major
          DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
          DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
          DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

          Comment


            #6
            I have nothing to add. Just chiming in so I can keep an eye on this thread.
            Festina lentē,
            Jessica P

            10th year HSing · 8th year MP
            @ Home, HLN, & MPOA
            10th, 8th, 5th, 2nd

            Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

            Comment


              #7
              I have a question about how that affects the 4FL plans. Will all of 4FL still be completed in one year, or will some of it be moved to the next grade, or will some of it be skipped altogether?
              2018/2019
              Dd 12: MP 7A and First Form Greek
              Ds 10: MP 5M
              Ds 5: MP K

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Angela View Post
                I have a question about how that affects the 4FL plans. Will all of 4FL still be completed in one year, or will some of it be moved to the next grade, or will some of it be skipped altogether?
                Hello Angela,

                To make room for those TFL lessons we moved, we do skip the last few lessons of 4FL. We can do this because the Forms Series covers not only everything in Henle I but also some of Henle II. Thus the content of the 4FL lessons we skip, lessons which cover a few relatively simple irregular verbs, will be taught in Henle II. In fact, even after we skip those few lessons, we're still covering more than Henle I while giving students the additional time to master what the Forms teach.

                HTH!
                Michael
                Memoria Press

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks, Michael!
                  Would you mind sharing which lessons in 4FL will be skipped? Asking because we're a bit behind schedule with it right now and I'd like to know which ones we can safely set aside.
                  2018/2019
                  Dd 12: MP 7A and First Form Greek
                  Ds 10: MP 5M
                  Ds 5: MP K

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Angela View Post
                    Thanks, Michael!
                    Would you mind sharing which lessons in 4FL will be skipped? Asking because we're a bit behind schedule with it right now and I'd like to know which ones we can safely set aside.
                    Sure. We skip the last three lessons, fero, fio, and volo/nolo/malo. All but malo are taught in Henle II. (Malo is taught in Henle III.)

                    HTH!
                    Michael
                    Memoria Press

                    Comment


                      #11
                      That's perfect! We have lost a couple of weeks due to more intense NLE preparation, so that's good news that we don't need to feel like we have to cram those in. Thanks!
                      2018/2019
                      Dd 12: MP 7A and First Form Greek
                      Ds 10: MP 5M
                      Ds 5: MP K

                      Comment


                        #12
                        We are just finishing up 6A core and the lesson plans for TFL did only go through lesson 28 as you described above. However I have already purchased the 7A core and I see that in week 1 it begins with Fourth Form lesson 1. Shouldn’t it begin with TFL lesson 29?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by kbiggs View Post
                          We are just finishing up 6A core and the lesson plans for TFL did only go through lesson 28 as you described above. However I have already purchased the 7A core and I see that in week 1 it begins with Fourth Form lesson 1. Shouldn’t it begin with TFL lesson 29?
                          Good afternoon,

                          We have to assume students will have taken the summer off, so we intentionally begin the next academic year with unit 1 of 4FL. The purpose of these early 4FL lessons remains the same as it was before the new pacing: a thorough review of prior material and the introduction of a few new odds and ends. The remaining lessons of TFL are scheduled into the middle of this unit. I believe they're after lesson 3 or 4 but I don't have a copy of the lesson plans with me to check.

                          I hope this post has answered your question. If not, or if you have any more, please let me know.
                          Michael
                          Memoria Press

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Michael,

                            I should have flipped a few weeks into the guide before asking! I see it now. That makes perfect sense and we are taking the summer off so it will work out well. Thank you!

                            Comment

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