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Research on Classical education

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    Research on Classical education

    Have there been any studies done on the benefits of classical education that is supported by hard-core data, such as SAT/ACT scores, college admissions, AP test scores, etc.? I browsed the Circe Institute website and clicked a link on research and found some eloquent philosophy but no statistical numbers.
    2 boys, 5th and 3rd grade cores
    6 and 3 year old girls in Montessori school

    #2
    Re: Research on Classical education

    You might enjoy these HLS-specific stats: https://thelatinschool.org/satitbsscores/
    Of particular interest is that they "max out" on the ITBS in seventh grade. At that point they are scoring in 13+ grade which is the highest possible measure.

    A few thoughts--

    One other thing to consider is that classical Christian education's goal is not to form scholars, but rather to form humans in wisdom and virtue. Some of those humans are naturally gifted academically and others are not. There are no nationally normed tests for kindness, creativity, or perseverance. Testing and numbers can tell me some things, but they can't tell me most of the important things. That may be why you run into more philosophy than numbers in your search.

    There is definitely an appropriate place of asking, "Is this a responsible academic path?" and many of us will chime in and say an enthusiastic "YES!" to that question. We run a little Highlands Cottage School here in town and I'm confident that my own kids are getting as good, if not better, academic formation through Memoria Press curriculum than any other school in the city and we have some very elite private options in town. As far as I could find online, the only other place you can read Greek Drama (Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides) in town is in a Classical and Mediterranean studies program at Vanderbilt University and that is a 3000 level course. My ninth grader is going to be reading those this year with a room full of ninth and tenth graders led by a passionate teacher. We have used MP in our home for six full years and I am very pleased with the level of academic formation it provides.

    One of my favorite questions to ask is, "Does this help the 90% of students?" What I mean by that is excluding the 10% or less who are going to excel no matter what craziness you throw at them, does classical Christian education lift all her students? Does the average student learn how to learn, master, and retain material that is worth knowing? Does the average student catch the gleam of goodness, truth, and beauty in all the studies that are before them? Do students start to believe in their ability to master material? I have seen it do this.

    The thing I have been focusing on the most lately is the phrase (I'm paraphrasing): "Classical Christian education does not neglect to teach the classical tools required for higher order thinking."

    One last comment I would make is that there are many current incarnations of classical education. When I am speaking on classical ed, I am referring to it done in the Memoria Press/Highlands Latin way. Apologies if I've misinterpreted your question, but perhaps this is helpful? I hope so!

    Best wishes as you continue to dig--
    Festina lentē,
    Jessica P

    '22-'23 • 13th year HSing • 11th year MP
    DS Hillsdale College freshman
    DD 11th • HLN & Latin online
    DD 8th • HLN & Home
    DS 5th • HLN & Home
    Me • Memoria College, MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

    Teaching Third Form Latin and co-directing @
    Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Research on Classical education

      I did research on Latin last year for a grad school class. I did come across some older research in favor of Latin and what is now called classical learning for college entrance and SAT scores. I saw some tracked into college, but they were smaller studies. I researched various other classical methods (reading by phonics, etc) and they mostly all came out as superior methods for all learner types.
      Bean. Long time MP user. Almost retired homeschool mom and university faculty/ librarian.

      I apologize in advance for my typos and grammatical mishaps.

      DD (17) Graduated!
      Mechanical Engineering

      "School Administrator" to niece (9): MP 3A

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Research on Classical education

        The reason for the post:
        They just announced yesterday that they’re closing another Catholic school in our diocese. It’s the second closing this year with several others closing in the recent past. I’m not surprised though, because a few years back the diocese adopted the same common core curriculum that our public schools use, and our public schools here are very good. It’s hard for a parent to justify spending money on Catholic school tuition (after paying exorbitant taxes) for their kids to get the same education as a free public school. The adoption of the common core in the diocese, with its focus on career prep and lack of character/virtue building, has been a source of “holy discontent” for me since we moved here. I believe that classical education can save our Catholic schools, for many of the reasons pickandgrin stated above. It’s been on my heart to write a letter to the diocese in support of adopting a classical model for the schools. I would of course go into the “truth, goodness, beauty” points (and perhaps borrow some eloquent points made above), but I honestly don’t think they’d pay any attention to my letter unless I backed it up with research. “The numbers” are the reason they adopted common core in the first place. I have been looking around for some statistics but hadn’t found anything yet. I'll take a look at some of the above suggestions. In all honestly, they probably won't give my letter any consideration at all, but I want to feel like I've done my part.
        2 boys, 5th and 3rd grade cores
        6 and 3 year old girls in Montessori school

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Research on Classical education

          Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
          You might enjoy these HLS-specific stats: https://thelatinschool.org/satitbsscores/
          Of particular interest is that they "max out" on the ITBS in seventh grade. At that point they are scoring in 13+ grade which is the highest possible measure.

          This is good because they use the ITBS in our diocese.
          2 boys, 5th and 3rd grade cores
          6 and 3 year old girls in Montessori school

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Research on Classical education

            Originally posted by musdir26 View Post
            The reason for the post:
            They just announced yesterday that they’re closing another Catholic school in our diocese. It’s the second closing this year with several others closing in the recent past. I’m not surprised though, because a few years back the diocese adopted the same common core curriculum that our public schools use, and our public schools here are very good. It’s hard for a parent to justify spending money on Catholic school tuition (after paying exorbitant taxes) for their kids to get the same education as a free public school. The adoption of the common core in the diocese, with its focus on career prep and lack of character/virtue building, has been a source of “holy discontent” for me since we moved here. I believe that classical education can save our Catholic schools, for many of the reasons pickandgrin stated above. It’s been on my heart to write a letter to the diocese in support of adopting a classical model for the schools. I would of course go into the “truth, goodness, beauty” points (and perhaps borrow some eloquent points made above), but I honestly don’t think they’d pay any attention to my letter unless I backed it up with research. “The numbers” are the reason they adopted common core in the first place. I have been looking around for some statistics but hadn’t found anything yet. I'll take a look at some of the above suggestions. In all honestly, they probably won't give my letter any consideration at all, but I want to feel like I've done my part.
            There are a couple of dioceses that have made the switch (or return) to Classical education and St. Jerome’s in Maryland is considered a strong case study for it. Look at the Institute for Catholic Liberal Education (started by TAC grads, I think). They might be able to give you some support in your letter as well. PM me with your diocese — I might have some connections that can help.
            Jennifer
            Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

            2022
            DS18: Graduated and living his dream in the automotive trades
            DS17: MP, MPOA, headed to his favorite liberal arts college this fall
            DS15: MP, MPOA
            DS13: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
            DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
            DD10: SC3
            DD7: MPK

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Research on Classical education

              Ah, I see. You have a burn. God can do a lot with and through a person who has a burn! You have my prayers for favor in your pursuit!

              I was going to suggest St. Jerome's as a case study as well. There have been quite a few articles written about them but this is the only one I can quickly find:
              https://www.washingtonpost.com/magaz...=.347174c71afb

              I read a different one recently (perhaps someone else did too?) that told the story of the meetings and volunteers that did all the hard work to make the switch.

              This is a Catholic classical school in Indiana that is a partner member of the Classical Latin School Association (CLSA www.classicallatin.org) whose site might be inspirational: http://www.stbenedictclassical.org/work/

              CLSA might be able to help out with more data for you to present in your letter or connect you to other Catholic schools who've changed back to a classical curriculum and approach. You will recognize most/all of the CLSA staff from your familiarity with MP.

              Hope this helps!
              Festina lentē,
              Jessica P

              '22-'23 • 13th year HSing • 11th year MP
              DS Hillsdale College freshman
              DD 11th • HLN & Latin online
              DD 8th • HLN & Home
              DS 5th • HLN & Home
              Me • Memoria College, MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

              Teaching Third Form Latin and co-directing @
              Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Research on Classical education

                Originally posted by musdir26 View Post
                The reason for the post:
                They just announced yesterday that they’re closing another Catholic school in our diocese. It’s the second closing this year with several others closing in the recent past. I’m not surprised though, because a few years back the diocese adopted the same common core curriculum that our public schools use, and our public schools here are very good. It’s hard for a parent to justify spending money on Catholic school tuition (after paying exorbitant taxes) for their kids to get the same education as a free public school. The adoption of the common core in the diocese, with its focus on career prep and lack of character/virtue building, has been a source of “holy discontent” for me since we moved here. I believe that classical education can save our Catholic schools, for many of the reasons pickandgrin stated above. It’s been on my heart to write a letter to the diocese in support of adopting a classical model for the schools. I would of course go into the “truth, goodness, beauty” points (and perhaps borrow some eloquent points made above), but I honestly don’t think they’d pay any attention to my letter unless I backed it up with research. “The numbers” are the reason they adopted common core in the first place. I have been looking around for some statistics but hadn’t found anything yet. I'll take a look at some of the above suggestions. In all honestly, they probably won't give my letter any consideration at all, but I want to feel like I've done my part.
                Ding, ding, ding, ding.

                I don't think our Catholic schools have adopted Common Core whole heartedly here, but when we've toured in the past, there was a BIG focus on STEM, technology for students, smart boards, etc. No thank you.

                We have three Catholic classical schools in our area --- Immaculata Classical Academy, Holy Angels Academy, and Corpus Christi Academy.

                Doesn't look like any of these are in the CLSA, but you could always research these and reach out to these school as well. These schools aren't associated with a particular parish. (as far as I know)
                Plans for 2022-23

                Year 12 of homeschooling with MP

                DD1 - 27 - college grad, bakery owner
                DD2 - 16 - 11th grade - HLS Cottage School - online classes, looking at dual credit - equestrian and theatre
                DS3 - 14 -7A Cottage School - soccer/tennis -dyslexia and dysgraphia
                DS4 -14 - 7A Cottage School -soccer/tennis -auditory processing disorder
                DD5 - 10- 5A, Cottage School - inattentive ADHD - equestrian and tumbling
                DS6 - 9 - MP 1 - home with momma

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Research on Classical education

                  This link has statistics from studies I have read. Let me know if you want links or copies of them. They are on my old brick-of-computer, but I'll fire it up if you need them: https://www.bolchazy.com/Assets/Bolc...dSATscores.pdf
                  Bean. Long time MP user. Almost retired homeschool mom and university faculty/ librarian.

                  I apologize in advance for my typos and grammatical mishaps.

                  DD (17) Graduated!
                  Mechanical Engineering

                  "School Administrator" to niece (9): MP 3A

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Research on Classical education

                    I know I'm late to the party, but I think the wait is worth it.

                    Recently Christy Anne Vaughan finished her doctoral dissertation which is a comparison of PSAT scores of students in classical Christian schools with those of students in non-classical Christian schools. It is a unique study because most of the time studies are done comparing private and public school students. This doesn't have that flaw. All these students were in private school--they just used different philosophies.

                    Take a look: Vaughan_Christy_Dissertation.pdf

                    Paul
                    Paul Schaeffer
                    --
                    Academy Director
                    Memoria Press Online Academy

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Research on Classical education

                      Originally posted by pschaeffer View Post
                      I know I'm late to the party, but I think the wait is worth it.

                      Recently Christy Anne Vaughan finished her doctoral dissertation which is a comparison of PSAT scores of students in classical Christian schools with those of students in non-classical Christian schools. It is a unique study because most of the time studies are done comparing private and public school students. This doesn't have that flaw. All these students were in private school--they just used different philosophies.

                      Take a look: [ATTACH]938[/ATTACH]

                      Paul
                      Paul, even though I'm not the OP, this study looks utterly fascinating! Downloaded to start reading with my coffee this afternoon. Thanks so much for sharing it!
                      Tracy
                      My boys: JR, Riley, and Jack
                      MP 8A, 7A, and MP2

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Research on Classical education

                        Oh and I just stumbled on this one too: http://www.zionkearney.org/wp-conten...spring2010.pdf
                        Paul Schaeffer
                        --
                        Academy Director
                        Memoria Press Online Academy

                        Comment

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