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    English Grammar Recitation

    My oldest daughter is moving to full MP curriculum this coming year. She will be in 6A. The first year I homeschooled her (3rd grade) we did the beginning of English Grammar Recitation 1. Neither of us liked it at all. I understand that EGR is used because the kids are getting most of their grammar from Latin, which we were not doing, so maybe that was part of the problem. She thought it was boring. I thought (and please remember that we were not doing Latin, so this may be a big part of why I thought as I did), that it was just a bunch of memorization without adequate work to make the lessons sink in. Since we were also doing Classical Conversations at the time, it was an overload of memorization without use of the information. I am not at all sure what to do about grammar this coming year. According to MP 6A, she should do EGR IV and Core Skills Language Arts 6. I have no problem using Core Skills 6. I think that we have a real issue about what to do with EGR. Since she has not competed levels 1-3, I would imagine it would be quite difficult to start in 4 because it would likely expect her to have already memorized 1-3. I dread the thought of putting her back in EGR at all, little alone having to go back and do 3 levels we never covered. What should I do with her? Is Core Skills enough? Is there an alternate grammar program for people who start late? I know that MP used to use Rod & Staff. We tried using it this year, and man is it complete overkill (!!!!!!), so I would love a different alternate if she cannot just do Core Skills 6 and have that be enough. Oh, Stela did complete a year of Classical Conversations Essentials, so she knows how to diagram and all of the parts of speech and tenses and such. Please help!
    Last edited by jejegreer; 05-06-2018, 02:31 PM.
    JeJe Greer
    Mom to:
    Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
    Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

    #2
    Re: English Grammar Recitation

    JeJe,
    Will she be doing Latin this year and if so, which level?
    Festina lentē,
    Jessica P

    SY2019-2020 · 8th MP Year
    @ Home, HLN, & MPOA
    S · 10th, MPOA Henle 3
    D · 8th
    D · 5th
    S · 2nd

    Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

    Comment


      #3
      Re: English Grammar Recitation

      Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
      JeJe,
      Will she be doing Latin this year and if so, which level?
      Yes. After advice from Michael and other Moms we are starting with First Form. I was going to do Henle since Classical Conversations would have had her do it, but I think that the reasoning for First Form is more persuasive.
      JeJe Greer
      Mom to:
      Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
      Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

      Comment


        #4
        Re: English Grammar Recitation

        I hope it is ok to say this--we do not do Latin. I finally decided after much agonizing to use Hake Grammar and Writing. Having used pretty much everything else (R&S, Growing with Grammar, BJU, First Lang Lessons, to name a few), I feel like this will do the job and most importantly, get done each day.
        The Homeschool Grads:
        J- 6/96
        S- 11/98

        Still Homeschooling:
        G- 4/04
        D- 5/05
        F- 7/08 (my only girl)

        Future Homeschooler:
        M- 9/16

        Comment


          #5
          Re: English Grammar Recitation

          Originally posted by Enigma View Post
          I hope it is ok to say this--we do not do Latin. I finally decided after much agonizing to use Hake Grammar and Writing. Having used pretty much everything else (R&S, Growing with Grammar, BJU, First Lang Lessons, to name a few), I feel like this will do the job and most importantly, get done each day.
          What do you use for grammar?
          JeJe Greer
          Mom to:
          Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
          Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

          Comment


            #6
            Re: English Grammar Recitation

            Originally posted by jejegreer View Post
            Yes. After advice from Michael and other Moms we are starting with First Form. I was going to do Henle since Classical Conversations would have had her do it, but I think that the reasoning for First Form is more persuasive.
            Michael or Tanya, what do you do about EGR if you are coming in where the plans say EGR IV and you have not done I-III?
            JeJe Greer
            Mom to:
            Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
            Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

            Comment


              #7
              Re: English Grammar Recitation

              Hi, JeJe.

              Depending on the student, some people start EGR in Book 1, but others begin in Book 2. Beginning in the middle of the program just means your student hasn't memorized the rules that came in the earlier books. So you need to spend extra time at the beginning of the year presenting and reciting those rules. But you really don't have to memorize them before moving forward. You can recite them together using the book, and the more you do that, the more fluent students will become. You just need to make sure your student understands the rules. Most of the rules in EGR 1 are easy. They obviously get harder as you move forward in the program. I don't know that I would begin in Book 4 though. That would be a lot of rules that students should already know. But if your student has a strong grammar background, you might find it to be okay.

              EGR was written as a supplement to Latin, so we believe students are going to learn to apply grammar through Latin. We would not recommend that EGR be used without Latin. We recommend R&S grammar for students not taking Latin.

              I think your choice of First Form Latin next year is a good one!

              Tanya

              Comment


                #8
                Re: English Grammar Recitation

                First Form and EGR II complement each other nicely. We are doing that this year and finding nice overlap.

                Please know that the EGR books are not typical workbooks in the sense that there is a long page of practice exercises each day like, for instance, Abeka. The beauty of the EGR series, and many many of MP products, is that the student *masters* the material in long term memory, not merely gains the ability to "recognize" the answers from a pattern. I learned many years ago that my kids could circle the first or second word of the workbook exercises to find the subject of the sentence, especially when the workbook would give pattern sentences. In EGR, an exercise sentence might start with an adverbial clause, but the student has memorized the rule which governs how to find the subject of a sentence. As Tanya notes, the student's goal is to internalize ("chant" under her breath, if you will) the grammar rule which governs the situation. The Core Skills books were added this school year when the home schoolers let MP know that we were seeking a bit more practice for our at home students. In typical MP customer service fashion, a few months later, the Core Skills books showed up as additions to our Core packages.


                I call this the "Tanya and her minions" effect, but in truth, there are so many MP folks who hop to to make our home experience unlike any other.



                Jen
                DS, 26 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace), recently completed the design and execution of unhackable military software... in his spare time.

                DS, 24 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

                DD, 21 yrs, Senior in Education at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC

                DS, 11 yrs, 6M: complete!

                All homeschooled.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: English Grammar Recitation

                  Originally posted by jejegreer View Post
                  What do you use for grammar?
                  Hake Grammar and Writing is the name of the program. We do not do the writing bits or the More Practice pages.

                  (Sorry I took so long to reply. It has been a bit busy.
                  The Homeschool Grads:
                  J- 6/96
                  S- 11/98

                  Still Homeschooling:
                  G- 4/04
                  D- 5/05
                  F- 7/08 (my only girl)

                  Future Homeschooler:
                  M- 9/16

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: English Grammar Recitation

                    Originally posted by Enigma View Post
                    Hake Grammar and Writing is the name of the program. We do not do the writing bits or the More Practice pages.

                    (Sorry I took so long to reply. It has been a bit busy.
                    Oh, you mean the one that you posted in your comment? Sometimes I miss things. It happens more as I get older. Sorry!
                    JeJe Greer
                    Mom to:
                    Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
                    Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: English Grammar Recitation

                      Originally posted by jejegreer View Post
                      My oldest daughter is moving to full MP curriculum this coming year. She will be in 6A. The first year I homeschooled her (3rd grade) we did the beginning of English Grammar Recitation 1. Neither of us liked it at all. I understand that EGR is used because the kids are getting most of their grammar from Latin, which we were not doing, so maybe that was part of the problem. She thought it was boring. I thought (and please remember that we were not doing Latin, so this may be a big part of why I thought as I did), that it was just a bunch of memorization without adequate work to make the lessons sink in. Since we were also doing Classical Conversations at the time, it was an overload of memorization without use of the information. I am not at all sure what to do about grammar this coming year. According to MP 6A, she should do EGR IV and Core Skills Language Arts 6. I have no problem using Core Skills 6. I think that we have a real issue about what to do with EGR. Since she has not competed levels 1-3, I would imagine it would be quite difficult to start in 4 because it would likely expect her to have already memorized 1-3. I dread the thought of putting her back in EGR at all, little alone having to go back and do 3 levels we never covered. What should I do with her? Is Core Skills enough? Is there an alternate grammar program for people who start late? I know that MP used to use Rod & Staff. We tried using it this year, and man is it complete overkill (!!!!!!), so I would love a different alternate if she cannot just do Core Skills 6 and have that be enough. Oh, Stela did complete a year of Classical Conversations Essentials, so she knows how to diagram and all of the parts of speech and tenses and such. Please help!
                      Hi there! This will be our family's 3rd year homeschooling and second full year with MP. Last year my 4th grader used 3A to get caught up, so she could start 5M this coming year. My 6th grader did a large mishmash of MP to gain exposure to the important topics covered in the earlier years of a classical education. With that being said, I combined some subjects for them, so that they weren't overwhelmed with the increased workload and convenience for mom too The subjects I combined were Latin and Grammar. We had been using Rod & Staff and my girls liked it, but you are so right, it is overkill! So we started with Latina Christiana to have a nice lead in to latin and went back to EGR 1. My daughters had learned so much of the grammar, but it was really a good review that cemented so many rules/skills to long term memory.

                      What was funny was that my youngest used it first, and my oldest insisted staying with R&S. Well pretty quickly she realized how much extra work she was doing and asked to switch! I know EGR isn't your daughters favorite, but if I may be so bold to say, not every subject needs to be a favorite. I think as homeschool moms we are on this constant quest to make our children happy in every subject. This simply isn't possible, and that's ok! Some subjects require us to just put our noses to the grindstone and plow through. It teaches determination and grit that will stick with them into adulthood, when we have lots of tasks and responsibilities that we don't always want to do. So with that being said, I would suggest taking EGR 2 with First Form. It may be a lot of review, but 6A really increases in workload, and it may be nice for her to have an easier subject to break up her day. We will be doing the same here. My youngest will be using 5M as written, but my oldest will be altering her 7M manual a bit. You can do this by either buying the digital downloads of the lesson plans, or I simply take small post-its and cover the particular day with the material that I assign. It sounds like we are in the same boat because you are using 6A and we are in 7M; other than spelling and math, I believe the manuals are very similar.

                      In our manual my oldest will have first form in place of third, our math curriculum, EGR 2 instead of 4, and Writing & Rhetoric in place of CC. So you can imagine our guide will be colorful with post-its! But I say, do what is best and make it work for you! I hope this helps.....I feel like I have rambled on so..... *sigh* I hope you have a wonderful year next year!

                      Beth
                      DD12 - 7M
                      DD10 - 5M
                      Beth
                      DD12 - 7M
                      DD10 - 5M

                      "When you're good to others, you are best to yourself."
                      -Benjamin Franklin

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