Fourth Form L.8 Section 8

[GeorgiaMom]

I have a question about the translations in Henle for this lesson. The English sentence reads "Christians often pray FOR THEMSELVES and FOR ALL MEN. The translation includes the preposition "pro" + the ablative (pro se) but my son translated it with the dative of the reflexive (sibi), thinking that the pro was unnecessary as the dative translates as to/for himself, etc.

I'm unsure how to explain this to him and I don't quite understand when we use pro and when we would choose the dative. I looked back to 3rd Form when the reflexives were learned, but I couldn't find the explanation. Any help would be much appreciated!

[Jon Christianson]

The English ambiguity of "for" strikes again! Rest assured that this is a very common difficulty over a surprisingly subtle distinction.

The best way to sort them out is to look at the alternative translations of dative and pro-plus-ablative. Dative can also be "to", pro can also be "on behalf of" - which one would make better sense if you replaced "for" with it? "Christians often pray TO themselves" certainly won't do; "Christians pray ON BEHALF OF themselves" is perfectly sensible, with perhaps the slight amendment to the more natural "Christians pray on their own behalf." So, pro is our correct answer.

Hope this helps!
- Jon

[GeorgiaMom]

Jon, thank you so much for the quick, and perfectly logical, response! That does make sense, and as soon as I read your answer aloud, he understood it. Much appreciated!