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Classical composition vs. classical writing

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    Classical composition vs. classical writing

    Can anyone explain the differences between classical composition and classical writing? I really came to MP many years ago from the Latin Centered Curriculum which recommended classical writing. However, LCC was written before the classical writing series was completed and before classical composition was purchased and reformatted by Memoria press. I can’t find good reviews from people that have used the programs past the early levels. I am looking for format as well as content differences over the course of the program, differences in the models they select, and any comments on issues I don’t even know to ask. My oldest went through all the levels with MPOA after attempt teach the early levels myself - that was my worst year ever of teaching. I strongly disliked the videos as did she and I didn’t find them particularly helpful. I see there are now more videos for the upper levels and I can’t tell if any of the lower levels have been re-recorded. My next son made it through ref/con with the middle school MPOA class, but the pace of the high school MPOA classical composition classes is too intense for any sort of balance in our homeschool. My next son completed fable several years ago with a co-op and is a rising freshman and I have a rising fourth grader. I don’t intend at this point to have the remaining two take online classes for writing so I need something that I can implement. Thanks for any help in the decision process.
    Dorinda

    Plans for 2022-2023
    16th year homeschooling, 13th year with Memoria Press
    DD College Sophomore
    DS 11th grade - Lukeion Latin and Greek, Vita Beata, MPOA Divine Comedy
    DS 9th grade - Vita Beata Literature/Classical Studies
    DS 4th grade - 4A with Right Start F, Second Form Latin, AAS 5

    #2
    Hello.

    I have a comparison that I have saved from previous years, but I can't remember who wrote it! I will attach it here for you, and I hope it helps. Then, if you have specific questions about CC, we can answer those. We just struggle to answer questions about other curriculum.

    Comparison of IEW, Classical Comp., and Classical Writing.pdf

    Tanya

    Comment


      #3
      Hello and thank you for the post!
      I have redone the early stage videos as well as many of the later stages, a project I enjoyed immensely. There is a sample piece of a video on the webpage for the fable curriculum set. Here it is! Fable Lesson 2 Sample
      Let me know if you have any other questions about the curriculum itself, or comparison to other curricula, and I can offer any assistance I have as you plan for next year. As a small note, High School Comp I, for the 2022 year online, is being refitted to include only Fable, Narrative, and Chreia/Maxim. Refutation/Confirmation will migrate to HS II beginning in 2023. That update might/might not be useful to you.

      My main perspective on Classical Composition as compared to other curricula is that it is fundamentally centered on the imitation of Aphthonius' actual models for every essay. The models are its core, and students personally interact with the models throughout each lesson, using the model as the basis for discovering all implemented discrete skills. There are fewer "extra-model" worksheets and activities, because our analysis of the content and rhetorical style comes directly from the models themselves.
      Abigail

      Comment


        #4
        Man, it has been a decade since I looked at Classical Writing. I didn’t even realize it was still around as all I ever hear about is Classical Comp or CAP’s program. We looked at CE and CC way, way back before MP started carrying it and reformatting it (which is a HUGE improvement in usability in a homeschool). In the end I chose CC because it was just composition. CW was a while writing and grammar program and it was just too much. I can’t really tell you much about how CW teaches compared to CC. All I remember is CW included a lot more than composition and was overkill for what I was looking for. I used Fable and Narrative with Mr. Selby’s old three ring binders. I bought and tried to use Chreia/Maxim, but it didn’t have enough help for me to know expectations and I got hung up on how my kids were supposed to get resources to research each topic (they weren’t!). Eventually, MP changed it up and added a ton of help including the videos. I watched the first C/M video and knew I had tried to do it all wrong. My son only ended up watching the first four or so lessons in each video (these were not Abigail’s videos) and then he could do the work on his own with a little guidance from me. With my latest student, I put him in MPOA after C/M and it was a good fit for him. I know I *could* have taught it just fine, but doing it for a teacher and having to read his work for the class really brought out a better quality of work from him.
        Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
        DD, 27, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
        DS, 25, BS '18 mechanical engineering
        DS, 23, BS '20 Chemsitry, pursuing phd at Wash U
        (DDIL married #3 in 2020, MPOA grad, BA '20 philosophy, pusrsing phd at SLU)
        DS, 21, Physics and math major
        DD, 18, dyslexic, 12th grade dual enrolled
        DS, 14, future engineer/scientist/ world conquerer 9th MPOA diploma student
        DD, 8 , 2nd Future astronaut, robot building space artist

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Abigail Johnson View Post
          Hello and thank you for the post!
          I have redone the early stage videos as well as many of the later stages, a project I enjoyed immensely. There is a sample piece of a video on the webpage for the fable curriculum set. Here it is! Fable Lesson 2 Sample
          Let me know if you have any other questions about the curriculum itself, or comparison to other curricula, and I can offer any assistance I have as you plan for next year. As a small note, High School Comp I, for the 2022 year online, is being refitted to include only Fable, Narrative, and Chreia/Maxim. Refutation/Confirmation will migrate to HS II beginning in 2023. That update might/might not be useful to you.

          My main perspective on Classical Composition as compared to other curricula is that it is fundamentally centered on the imitation of Aphthonius' actual models for every essay. The models are its core, and students personally interact with the models throughout each lesson, using the model as the basis for discovering all implemented discrete skills. There are fewer "extra-model" worksheets and activities, because our analysis of the content and rhetorical style comes directly from the models themselves.
          Abigail
          Out of curiosity, will the high school composition classes still require a paper each week? That was the biggest issue I had with the high school level classes. Both of my older two kids did just fine in the middle school class that covered reviewed Chreia/Maxim and Ref/Con in a year because those only had a paper due every other week. It wasn’t the number of levels that concerned me, but the time required to get through a paper every week.
          Dorinda

          Plans for 2022-2023
          16th year homeschooling, 13th year with Memoria Press
          DD College Sophomore
          DS 11th grade - Lukeion Latin and Greek, Vita Beata, MPOA Divine Comedy
          DS 9th grade - Vita Beata Literature/Classical Studies
          DS 4th grade - 4A with Right Start F, Second Form Latin, AAS 5

          Comment


            #6
            Hello!
            HS I is being redesigned right now to include only Fable, Narrative, and Chreia/Maxim. Previously, HS I was a Fable or Narrative paper every week, some Chreia/Maxim papers every week (at the end, when the skills have had practice), and a paper every two weeks for Ref/Con. - NB I don't think students write a Ref/Con paper in a week, in my experience, unless it is the last paper of the year, (the final exam) or a quick review paper at the beginning of the year. - In the redesign, Fable and Narrative, after an initial week of introduction, will remain as a paraphrase every week. High schoolers should quickly get up to speed on these skills that take younger learners much more time to master. Chreia/Maxim will start off with an introduction week, a week for the Paraphrase of the Model, and 2 weeks per essay for the first few essays, and then later in Spring move to a more rapid pace as they develop mastery, with one essay per week. As a class that receives a full High School credit, and in acknowledgement of this course's concepts being accessible at younger ages, the goal of 1 paper per week allows us to balance the need for sufficient repetition for mastery with the condensed timeline, while also providing the quicker pace appropriate to the 13-14+ year old, versus the 9-10 year old.
            Abigail

            Comment


              #7
              Abigail Johnson

              Thanks for the answers. I signed up for the pre-conference class at Sodalitas so I look forward to learning how I should have taught the early CC to my older kids.
              Dorinda

              Plans for 2022-2023
              16th year homeschooling, 13th year with Memoria Press
              DD College Sophomore
              DS 11th grade - Lukeion Latin and Greek, Vita Beata, MPOA Divine Comedy
              DS 9th grade - Vita Beata Literature/Classical Studies
              DS 4th grade - 4A with Right Start F, Second Form Latin, AAS 5

              Comment


                #8
                Wonderful, I look forward to seeing you!
                Remember though, that we are still recovering what our ancestors allowed to be lost! We labor in FAITH; what you have given to each of your children, however much of a seedling that wisdom was, STILL will blossom into the mighty cedar.

                Abigail

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