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    Narrative question

    Good Morning!

    A couple of questions about the paraphrases. First, is the student "allowed" to look back at the narrative while working on his paraphrases? Or is he expected to only refer to his outline? And if only the outline then how is it that we ask the students to go the narrative and underline "extras" to help them see the basic parts of the story?

    Also, I want to confirm that the paraphrases are two separate exercises that are not cumulative. So, for example, if paraphrase 1 required reduction and paraphrase 2 asked for inversion, paraphrase 2 is NOT a inversion of the reduction but rather a whole new paraphrase from the original. I believe this to be so but I wanted to double check my understanding as my students keep getting confused and think it is a cumulative type of exercise.

    Thank you so much!

    #2
    Hello Tara!
    That is a great question! Absolutely, students are allowed to go back and look at the narrative original when they are proofing and reviewing what they have written. But, to give you a good idea of the scope of a lesson I should go back to the beginning.
    First, students should start out by reading the narrative out loud several times, and then paraphrasing from memory as much of the original story as they can. This is the part that gives them an attention to detail in the story and a thorough familiarity with it, without having to go back and look at the written tale every few words. However, if a student jumps right in after reading it once, their paraphrases understandably are going to be lacking. But, after being able to tell a lot of the story from memory, to then precede to the outline, and then finally to the paraphrases flows actually very well. I always do encourage my students to go back and look at the original narrative once they have written a rough draft, just to make sure that it is as I say "detailed to the same depth" as the original. This means that they can change the details, but they can't just omit them and thus have a very simplified story. That would be reduction after all. ;-)

    To your second question, no the paraphrases are not cumulative. That would be very confusing! They are two totally independent exercises that manipulate the original story two different ways. You are then free to select whichever of the two exercises you prefer to make a "final draft" OR you may create your own expectations for a final draft. Please note that there are final draft instructions in the book, but you are free to adapt them to the needs of your students, say, if, for example, they need more practice on chronology inversion than they need on perspective change, or they are older and you want to put more narrative skills into the same paper, as in "add these 3 figures, and begin in the middle, and finally, change the perspective." It is up to you.
    Blessings,
    Abigail Johnson

    Comment


      #3
      Abigail,

      Thank you so much! Just to clarify though.....Do we want the student to have the original narrative sitting right there next to them with them basically viewing it as they type? I am thinking the answer to that is NO and to just use the narrative to check their work to see if they did include everything they needed but not to use it as a crutch to assist them as they write their paraphrases. Is that correct?

      Thanks again!

      Comment


        #4
        Tara,
        Most certainly no! We use the outlines to guide them as they write, which is why they are a part of our "prewriting" preparation. These outlines (or word maps, however, you like to dissect story) help students see the major and minor, the vital and the secondary, as well as remember to include them all. Then, when the RD is completed, a look back at the original to check for missing content is a good idea, BUT ideally, again students will have a good grasp of the story, and that, with the outline will be sufficient. Sometimes though, I do have a student who really needs to compare the original with the RD, so as to see what is "missing," or, if I have a student who routinely summarizes instead of amplifies, I pull out the original and go line by line through and point out all the richness that accidentally went to the chopping block.
        I hope this is helpful to you, happy writing!
        Blessings,
        Abigail

        Comment


          #5
          Yes, ma'am. This is exactly what I thought as well but wanted to make sure!! Thank you so much for the helpful feedback. I am really enjoying CC. We start Chreia next week! Yay! :-)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Abigail Johnson View Post
            Tara,
            Most certainly no! We use the outlines to guide them as they write, which is why they are a part of our "prewriting" preparation. These outlines (or word maps, however, you like to dissect story) help students see the major and minor, the vital and the secondary, as well as remember to include them all. Then, when the RD is completed, a look back at the original to check for missing content is a good idea, BUT ideally, again students will have a good grasp of the story, and that, with the outline will be sufficient. Sometimes though, I do have a student who really needs to compare the original with the RD, so as to see what is "missing," or, if I have a student who routinely summarizes instead of amplifies, I pull out the original and go line by line through and point out all the richness that accidentally went to the chopping block.
            I hope this is helpful to you, happy writing!
            Blessings,
            Abigail
            Hello Abigail,

            I found this thread while searching for information on outlines as I am trying to better understand the outlines presented in CC. We are just finishing Narrative, after basically doing the Fable/Narrative lesson plans over a couple of years. My sons are grades 7 and 8 and after coming to MP three years ago, it has taken me a while to sort out all the subjects and CC didn't always get the attention it deserved. But I am hopeful that we are on track now to start Chreia/Maxim in September!

            So, regarding the outlines . . . sometimes (not all the time) they don't seem very intuitive to me. They seem, (for example Lesson 10 "The Frog Prince)," to be simply a retelling of the story in phrases instead of complete sentences and I feel like I am just not quite getting the significance of doing it this way. I usually do the outline section with my sons and leave other sections for independent work because the outline is the biggest hurdle. Are other possible outlines acceptable? Maybe I just need a little more explanation in order to clarify it with my sons. Or maybe walking through the CC outline is the best way to approach it.

            I've read a lot of your comments on these threads and watched your videos and they are really helping me grow my understanding and appreciation for CC. Thank you!

            Monica
            Monica
            S - 14
            S - 12

            Comment


              #7
              Hello!

              Thanks for your question. Outlines can be a bit hard to understand as in how they fit into the lesson, so let me see if I can help.

              Outlines are a tool to break down the story into sections and pieces, helping a student identify "scenes" (some teachers call them acts), breaks, and shifts in the plot as well as the details of the story for memory assistance.

              Outlines also help students to break the detail and the story itself out of its original complete sentence form, in order to help them recall the details but, and this is really important, not end up subconsciously parroting the original sentence structure and wording of the story. This happens when students go from the complete sentences of the original story directly to paraphrasing. So, using the outline helps to "break out" the story content from its original "packaging" if you will, and encourages better, more unique expression in the paraphrasing.

              Especially for longer stories, outlines are not meant to encapsulate every single, tiny detail, but they will include a substantial amount of it, and can be quite long sometimes. However, they should not be laboriously re-created necessarily by every student, in its entirety, every time. Outlines can be burdensome when treated in a manner different from their intention, which is to support, not steal time from, writing.

              I often give the longer outlines to students and only leave part of it blank for us to work through together and fill in, or in class we come up with an outline that is different from the book. The teacher's manual is NOT the outline "answer key;" it is a suggestion. As long as the students come up with a sufficiently detailed, reasonably organized outline (not just 2 Roman numerals with subpoints all the way through X, for example!) it is an acceptable a "story digestion" tool. As I mention often in trainings, it is NOT a hill to die on; it is a small part of the process, not the goal.

              Again, feel free to give your students the "main points" and leave them to fill in the 1,2,3's or the a,b,c's or give them the outline with parts throughout whited out, or even assign them the "big act ideas of the I, II, III etc, but give them the details under each Act (I, II, III) that they need then fill in. Smaller outlines and beginning students can work with the teacher, and as students master the idea, they can be left to complete pieces of it on their own. Feel free to give them the numbering and lettering also, or prompt and guide them as they go with questions like "do you think we need a new act, or is this a detail of the current act?"

              Outlines can be really difficult when we treat them with too great of an expectation and give too much time. They are a tool to break down the story for detail recall, and the students then use the outline (not the original story) for paraphrasing purposes (see above). If your family prefers other outlining tools like story webs, etc., as mentioned in the quote from your post, that is fine too, just make sure the level of detail is sufficient to be useful in producing a similarly detailed paraphrase.

              I hope this helps you to properly relegate outlines back to their proper place and alleviates some of the burden you felt. Please let write back if I can help any further!
              Abigail

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Abigail Johnson View Post
                Hello!

                Thanks for your question. Outlines can be a bit hard to understand as in how they fit into the lesson, so let me see if I can help.

                Outlines are a tool to break down the story into sections and pieces, helping a student identify "scenes" (some teachers call them acts), breaks, and shifts in the plot as well as the details of the story for memory assistance.

                Outlines also help students to break the detail and the story itself out of its original complete sentence form, in order to help them recall the details but, and this is really important, not end up subconsciously parroting the original sentence structure and wording of the story. This happens when students go from the complete sentences of the original story directly to paraphrasing. So, using the outline helps to "break out" the story content from its original "packaging" if you will, and encourages better, more unique expression in the paraphrasing.

                Especially for longer stories, outlines are not meant to encapsulate every single, tiny detail, but they will include a substantial amount of it, and can be quite long sometimes. However, they should not be laboriously re-created necessarily by every student, in its entirety, every time. Outlines can be burdensome when treated in a manner different from their intention, which is to support, not steal time from, writing.

                I often give the longer outlines to students and only leave part of it blank for us to work through together and fill in, or in class we come up with an outline that is different from the book. The teacher's manual is NOT the outline "answer key;" it is a suggestion. As long as the students come up with a sufficiently detailed, reasonably organized outline (not just 2 Roman numerals with subpoints all the way through X, for example!) it is an acceptable a "story digestion" tool. As I mention often in trainings, it is NOT a hill to die on; it is a small part of the process, not the goal.

                Again, feel free to give your students the "main points" and leave them to fill in the 1,2,3's or the a,b,c's or give them the outline with parts throughout whited out, or even assign them the "big act ideas of the I, II, III etc, but give them the details under each Act (I, II, III) that they need then fill in. Smaller outlines and beginning students can work with the teacher, and as students master the idea, they can be left to complete pieces of it on their own. Feel free to give them the numbering and lettering also, or prompt and guide them as they go with questions like "do you think we need a new act, or is this a detail of the current act?"

                Outlines can be really difficult when we treat them with too great of an expectation and give too much time. They are a tool to break down the story for detail recall, and the students then use the outline (not the original story) for paraphrasing purposes (see above). If your family prefers other outlining tools like story webs, etc., as mentioned in the quote from your post, that is fine too, just make sure the level of detail is sufficient to be useful in producing a similarly detailed paraphrase.

                I hope this helps you to properly relegate outlines back to their proper place and alleviates some of the burden you felt. Please let write back if I can help any further!
                Abigail
                Thank you, Abigail! This is very helpful, both putting the outline in context and the different ways to work with outlining.

                Monica
                Monica
                S - 14
                S - 12

                Comment

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