Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Foundations of Composition & CC

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Foundations of Composition & CC

    Hello,

    My families have been using MP Lit guides for some years now. We've also used MPOA for Lit classes. We will be adding more MP to our studies. I have 5 children, 3 I am writing about in this post.

    Children ages and grades: 13 son (6th grade), 12 son(6th grade), 10 daughter (4th grade).

    This fall the boys will be doing Middle School Comp I (MPOA). They both did a year of IEW with Classical Conversations Essentials. I’m not sure how well they were taught but their writing improved tremendously. My daughter will doing IEW this upcoming year for 5th grade. I was thinking about starting her with CC in 7th but I’m not sold on that idea. I want to go through the whole CC sequence with all of them.

    Where in the sequence should I place FOC for my children? Should I take a break one year from CC to do FOE? Should we do it before high school? Should we do it after the CC sequence is done so the CC tools could be applied with what FOC teaches? I see the benefit of the children doing both as different skills/tools will be gained.

    Fall courses:
    13 year old son: Foundations of English (MPOA), Middle School Comp I (MPOA), Classical Studies l (MPOA), Seventh grade Lit (Home or Online), Latin (Home or MPOA), Spelling (Veritas Press Online).

    12 year old son:
    Foundations of English (MPOA), Middle School Comp I (MPOA), Classical Studies l (MPOA), Seventh grade Lit (Home or Online), Latin (Home or MPOA).

    11 year old (in upcomingDecember):
    3rd grade lit (Home), Latin (Home or MPOA), IEW & Shurley English (VP Online), Spelling (VP Online).

    #2
    Hello!
    Those are great questions. since I do not teach foundations, I'm just checking with a colleague to make sure that I can give you the specific details you need, especially since your students are in a range of grades.
    ​​​​​
    I will get back to you!
    Abigail

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Abigail Johnson View Post
      Hello!
      Those are great questions. since I do not teach foundations, I'm just checking with a colleague to make sure that I can give you the specific details you need, especially since your students are in a range of grades.
      ​​​​​
      I will get back to you!
      Abigail
      Thanks! I watch all your CC explanation videos. It’s given me a better understanding of the need and value of CC.

      Comment


        #4
        Greetings again! I've spoken to my colleague, and what I would recommend is to have your 6th graders take MS Comp I (Fable Narrative) and then take a year of Chreia/ Maxim in 7th, and a year of Ref/Con in 8th. They are young enough that there is NO reason to rush into Chreia & Ref/Con in one year, as it is a very fast paced class! Students who have plenty of time should go slower through Ref/Con. :-) They will thank you later.

        Then in 9th grade, take HS II, (Common Topic-Comparison) and in 10th Grade, take HS III (Characterization-Law), and then in 11th grade, once you have finished CC, take the a year of FOC, which really is geared to be a high-school level course, and Mrs. Roemer is an excellent, challenging teacher. You would not want to put younger students (6th or 7th graders) into that class. The "Foundations" course sounds elementary, but it is not! It is the PERFECT finish for CC, since it really makes sure that students are using all their CC skills in more "modern, programmed" essays." The course will make sure they are transferring all their CC skills to other subject/style writing. You could break up the CC progression, say, if you want to take FOC after 9th grade, or after Ref/Con, but I find it's best to be cohesive, so I don't recommend that as much.
        After that, I recommend an AP course or just focusing on our upper level literature courses; ours definitely have plenty of essays programmed into them.

        As far as your 4th grader is concerned, the same sort of progress is beneficial. If you start CC in 4th/5th grade, you can do more of the year-long stages, and fewer composite classes, but that is your choice.
        Please let me know if I can help with anything else, I hope I've answered all your thoughts, but I may well have missed something.
        Blessings,
        Abigail

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Abigail Johnson View Post
          Greetings again! I've spoken to my colleague, and what I would recommend is to have your 6th graders take MS Comp I (Fable Narrative) and then take a year of Chreia/ Maxim in 7th, and a year of Ref/Con in 8th. They are young enough that there is NO reason to rush into Chreia & Ref/Con in one year, as it is a very fast paced class! Students who have plenty of time should go slower through Ref/Con. :-) They will thank you later.

          Then in 9th grade, take HS II, (Common Topic-Comparison) and in 10th Grade, take HS III (Characterization-Law), and then in 11th grade, once you have finished CC, take the a year of FOC, which really is geared to be a high-school level course, and Mrs. Roemer is an excellent, challenging teacher. You would not want to put younger students (6th or 7th graders) into that class. The "Foundations" course sounds elementary, but it is not! It is the PERFECT finish for CC, since it really makes sure that students are using all their CC skills in more "modern, programmed" essays." The course will make sure they are transferring all their CC skills to other subject/style writing. You could break up the CC progression, say, if you want to take FOC after 9th grade, or after Ref/Con, but I find it's best to be cohesive, so I don't recommend that as much.
          After that, I recommend an AP course or just focusing on our upper level literature courses; ours definitely have plenty of essays programmed into them.

          As far as your 4th grader is concerned, the same sort of progress is beneficial. If you start CC in 4th/5th grade, you can do more of the year-long stages, and fewer composite classes, but that is your choice.
          Please let me know if I can help with anything else, I hope I've answered all your thoughts, but I may well have missed something.
          Blessings,
          Abigail
          Sorry, but I wasn't clear in my first post. My boys will be in 7th grade next year. My daughter is going to 5th grade.

          Comment


            #6
            HI Abigail,
            Some Context:
            My daughter has been in public school, has never been homeschooled and has never had any formal grammar instruction. She couldn't even tell me what an adjective or preposition was when I asked her two weeks ago. That was one reason I was placing her in a course with VP which combines IEW & Shurley Grammar. Another reason: I wanted her to have some writing experience before taking high school level lit courses. I love the slow progression which allows focus and mastery but I wasn't sure if she will have all she needs to do the essays required in her classics, literature and history courses.

            FYI: The children haven't taken on Latin yet. They will start this fall.

            Comment


              #7
              Hi Naryee,

              Sorry to be so late, I forgot to respond in the craziness of the last week of my classes.

              I always recommend a thorough grammar and mechanics understanding before embarking into a lot of paragraph writing, so I absolutely think you are doing the right thing! It is tortuous when a student has to spend 80% of their time and energy fixing grammar, spelling, and mechanics instead of being able to focus on the content of the skills.

              It is also VERY wise to progress through several stages of CC before asking students to write essays and put more than a paragraph "short answer" together, because they just don't have the structural pieces in place for larger writing production. CC stages after the first couple, however SHOULD be taken concurrently with Lit, though, because students then practice putting their CC skill sets to use, such as introductions, thesis statements, developing their thesis, supporting it from the text, inventing arguments for or against, etc. It is the active transfer of the CC discrete skills to other "types" of essays where you will really see the value of the program! As I regularly tell my students, "You are never going to write a Chreia again after you leave here, but the point is NOT to write "Chreias" themselves; rather the point is to master each Head of Development and take them to use in your essays to support, explain, and develop your thesis or point."
              As long as you choose your Lit courses carefully, with an age/level appropriate expectation of writing for where your daughter is, she will do just fine. MP offers courses for 3rd and 4th grade literature, for example, that primarily focus on the reading of Lit, and not on the extensive writing. That will come later, as you say, when she is in MS and HS.
              Have I answered all your questions?
              Blessings!
              Abigail

              Comment


                #8
                Yes! Thank you for your time.

                Comment

                Working...
                X