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    IF a student completes the MP cores through 12th grade (homeschool, not online school), will there be any research papers assigned? Even more importantly, will they have any step-by-step instructions on how to do research, write, and cite a research paper? I don't see anything in the current offerings, but I might be missing something. I have found that my older children needed to be able to write 20 page research papers in a month or so their first semester of college in literature and history type classes and it is assumed that they have learned how to do this in high school. I want to know if I decide to go with MP cores if this will be taught or if I will have to add in additional work. Thank you.
    Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
    DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
    DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
    DS, 21, chemistry major
    DS, 18, Physics major
    DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
    DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
    DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

    #2
    Re: research papers

    I have been wondering about this as well for my grade 9 student. I think there was some discussion on this at Sodalities, but the answer was not very clear, at least to me! Reference was made to The Elegant Essay (Andrew Pudewa, I believe), and I know some non-MP homeschoolers who have used it and claim good results with it. My understanding is that Elegant Essay is undergoing revision, but when that revised version will be available is also not known. I hope you will get some answers on this; I know there are others who are seeking help in this area.
    Ora et labora,
    Sandra

    DD (17) - grade 12 (Divine Comedy, Precalculus, AP Latin, Senior Thesis, Fundamentals of the Faith, American Government, and Economics through MPOA Diploma Program)


    DD (13) - grade 9 (Algebra ll, Fourth Form Latin, Logic l & ll, High School Comp. ll, through MPOA. Aeneid/ History of the Romans, Geography lll, and Biology at home)

    Comment


      #3
      Re: research papers

      I've reached out to IEW about this. I'll get you a date as soon as I have an answer!

      Tanya

      Comment


        #4
        Re: research papers

        Thank you, Tanya!
        Ora et labora,
        Sandra

        DD (17) - grade 12 (Divine Comedy, Precalculus, AP Latin, Senior Thesis, Fundamentals of the Faith, American Government, and Economics through MPOA Diploma Program)


        DD (13) - grade 9 (Algebra ll, Fourth Form Latin, Logic l & ll, High School Comp. ll, through MPOA. Aeneid/ History of the Romans, Geography lll, and Biology at home)

        Comment


          #5
          Re: research papers

          So is this IEW essay course one that teaches research papers? Will it be included as part of the high school cores? Is it predicated on the main IEW course? Because we have been using CC per MP plans and have no desire to switch to TWSS. If MP intends to use IEW in high school are you going to be switching out CC for IEW? I guess I'm confused.
          Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
          DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
          DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
          DS, 21, chemistry major
          DS, 18, Physics major
          DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
          DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
          DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

          Comment


            #6
            Re: research papers

            We have used (class of 2013) and are currently using (class of 2019) Kolbe high school since MP didn't have a 10th grade package this year. Kolbe teaches research papers as part of their English class each year. They write one in 9th, one in 10th and two in 11th (can't remember about 12th). And the books they use step the student through the process. I can always use their course in the future. It's not like I'm searching for something to teach research papers.
            Rather I hope to use MP cores for my rising 7th grader all the way through 12th and I want to make sure research papers will be taught without me having to sub out courses. That would defeat the purpose of using cores.
            Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
            DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
            DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
            DS, 21, chemistry major
            DS, 18, Physics major
            DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
            DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
            DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

            Comment


              #7
              Re: research papers

              No worries. We aren't planning to remove CC from high school at all. We just realize that the exercises in CC don't really teach the rudimentary rules about research or a 3pt 5 paper. But we feel that CC teaches students about the guts of a paper - how to make and defend an argument, how to paraphrase, how to write concisely but with vivid description - all important components. But it makes people nervous that CC isn't a typical writing program. And really, if you can successfully complete the CC courses, you can write anything asked of you, in any format. If we add the Elegant Essay, it will only be s a unit study to cover what people are looking for in a typical writing program that they don't see in CC. It will not replace CC for us.

              I hope this clarifies things. I didn't mean to confuse you in my earlier reply.

              Tanya

              Comment


                #8
                Re: research papers

                I'm not sure EE teaches research papers? Christian Light has a three-week research paper unit though. You could use whatever topic you wanted from MP, and it isn't too time consuming.
                Bean. Long time MP user.

                DD- 9th grade aerospace enthusiast. Using a mix of dual credit, online and classical materials for 2019-2020.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: research papers

                  Sorry I'm still not sure of MP plans. I love CC in grade school and early high school but ideally it is finished by 10th. I was just referring to the fact that you use CC in grade school core plans and I wasn't sure if this IEW high school course required the basic IEW class first.
                  But- that was a side track from my original question- does MP assign and teach research paper writing in high school? Not essays (personally I think CC leads to great essays. All it takes is 10 minutes to explain 5 paragraph essay format). I'm looking for instruction and multiple assignment of research papers. Teaching them HOW to research and take notes and how to cite the papers using MLA or equivalent. CC does not teach this nor have I seen it in any of the history or literature courses. I can't picture a course called "Elegant Essay" teaching research- I would think it would teach essays. It looks like the MP cores are going to be very full and I don't like the idea of adding extra work, I would prefer to see it included in the lesson plans.
                  Perhaps I'm off base and most MP customers aren't looking for research paper instruction. It's just that MP is supposed to be college prep and my college kids (one who graduated from Kolbe and two from public) have needed this skill their first semester of college and they were able to know what to do from what they had been taught in high school. I'm hoping MP will teach research papers? Does Highlands?
                  Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
                  DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
                  DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
                  DS, 21, chemistry major
                  DS, 18, Physics major
                  DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
                  DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
                  DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: research papers

                    Originally posted by momgineer View Post
                    Sorry I'm still not sure of MP plans. I love CC in grade school and early high school but ideally it is finished by 10th. I was just referring to the fact that you use CC in grade school core plans and I wasn't sure if this IEW high school course required the basic IEW class first.
                    But- that was a side track from my original question- does MP assign and teach research paper writing in high school? Not essays (personally I think CC leads to great essays. All it takes is 10 minutes to explain 5 paragraph essay format). I'm looking for instruction and multiple assignment of research papers. Teaching them HOW to research and take notes and how to cite the papers using MLA or equivalent. CC does not teach this nor have I seen it in any of the history or literature courses. I can't picture a course called "Elegant Essay" teaching research- I would think it would teach essays. It looks like the MP cores are going to be very full and I don't like the idea of adding extra work, I would prefer to see it included in the lesson plans.
                    Perhaps I'm off base and most MP customers aren't looking for research paper instruction. It's just that MP is supposed to be college prep and my college kids (one who graduated from Kolbe and two from public) have needed this skill their first semester of college and they were able to know what to do from what they had been taught in high school. I'm hoping MP will teach research papers? Does Highlands?
                    I'm going to sheepishly raise might hand here and squeak out, "Me too". We were all set to buy grade 8 this year... and then I realized it would have been a one year purchase for us. When I looked ahead to high school, I saw us tweaking quite a bit- and research papers was a big part of that.
                    Bean. Long time MP user.

                    DD- 9th grade aerospace enthusiast. Using a mix of dual credit, online and classical materials for 2019-2020.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: research papers

                      Originally posted by bean View Post
                      I'm going to sheepishly raise might hand here and squeak out, "Me too". We were all set to buy grade 8 this year... and then I realized it would have been a one year purchase for us. When I looked ahead to high school, I saw us tweaking quite a bit- and research papers was a big part of that.
                      Me three...was pondering this myself since we will be just starting CC in 7th grade.
                      PAX,
                      Theresa

                      ds -27-ICU Nurse
                      ds -24-Grad school: DeSales U. Physician's Assistant Program
                      dd -21-Working and taking online courses for vet tech
                      dd -12-7M along with some MPOA classes

                      "I am a product of long corridors, empty sunlit rooms, upstairs indoor silences, attics explored in solitude, distant noises of gurgling cisterns and pipes, and the noise of wind under the tiles. Also, of endless books." -C.S. Lewis

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: research papers

                        I think this is the IEW book that teaches the research paper, not Elegant Essay.
                        http://iew.com/shop/products/writing...rstudent-combo

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: research papers

                          At Sodalitas the HLS-Indy folks shared their students did research papers in other classes, not composition (into which CC falls). I believe it was History and Science and guided by the teachers? Perhaps they can share more. It was my understanding that once they've completed CC it was more about being directed on the form of setting up the research paper and notating sources, that the actual writing was easy.

                          We are only into Core 8 and aren't trying to write extra beyond the CC practice. Have you others seen prompts in the high school material for paper ideas (Literature, Classical Studies, Science, etc.)? I left with the impression that a student who is already a skilled writer should not have problem learning the form of the paper. Also, regarding manuals of style, they are going to vary by college program preference anyway. I know my word processing software pops footnotes right in--you just need the style instructions on notating the source.

                          I've tucked away the idea of writing a senior year research paper or thesis but we aren't there yet, as I mentioned earlier. Perhaps I'm way off base, but I wouldn't see the lack of instruction in a specific skill dissuading me from the otherwise robust high school path of MP. To the OP (momgineer?), I guess that would mean adding in a simple program like the one linked above if you did want that specific instruction. I'm hopeful Cindy Davis or someone else from HLS can chime in to this discussion.

                          Just my inexperienced two cents, ha!
                          Last edited by pickandgrin; 07-30-2016, 08:17 PM.
                          Festina lentē,
                          Jessica P

                          SY2019-2020 · 8th MP Year
                          @ Home, HLN, & MPOA
                          S · 10th, MPOA Henle 3
                          D · 8th
                          D · 5th
                          S · 2nd

                          Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: research papers

                            Does this help at MPOA: https://www.memoriapressacademy.com/...sis-by-subject
                            PAX,
                            Theresa

                            ds -27-ICU Nurse
                            ds -24-Grad school: DeSales U. Physician's Assistant Program
                            dd -21-Working and taking online courses for vet tech
                            dd -12-7M along with some MPOA classes

                            "I am a product of long corridors, empty sunlit rooms, upstairs indoor silences, attics explored in solitude, distant noises of gurgling cisterns and pipes, and the noise of wind under the tiles. Also, of endless books." -C.S. Lewis

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: research papers

                              Originally posted by Benedictine15 View Post
                              No because that is the online academy not the homeschool program.
                              I'm all for doing the research papers in other subjects like history but what I absolutely don't want is a "suggested enrichment" to write a paper. For me it needs to be step by step in the lesson plans. This week gather resources (and here is how to do that), this week take notes (and here is how to know what to take notes on), this week develope your thesis and write an outline or detailed notes. Etc
                              Cc does a wonderful job of teaching how to write well. Does it teach how to research well? How to take notes? And citing is so so much more than a word processor formatting for you. What needs cited and what does not? This are skills that don't just magically appear in students. In an actual school like Highlands or even an online academy the teacher can step them through the process.
                              So my suggestion is to have the homeschool material step them through the process. Pretend the patent knows very little about tea search papers and create lesson plans or teacher guides that step the student through it like a teacher at Highlands would. If you want them to write a research paper in history class- assign it and put it in the lesson plans. Do t just hide the suggestion in the enrichment section of the TG.
                              MP has done a great job in grammar school of converting Highlands material to be used in homeschool, but from what I have seen if the high school the guidance just is not there. An experienced classroom teacher could teach with the material. A homeschool parent will probably let too much slide because it wasn't specifically assigned or they weren't sure how to do it. For instance- the World history study guides are only simple comprehension questions! That is 5th grade level work. Where are the essays? Research papers? Deeper discussion questions? The book is an AP book but where are DBQ and FRQ taught? It certainly wouldn't prepare a student for the AP test the way it is currently written.
                              Is the only answer to pay for the online academy? If so I might just pay my local college who charges the same amount and gives college credit. I am homeschooling on a budget, but I require guidance. I'd like to know if MP will meet my needs? It certainly does in 3rd-8th! Will it fit high school?
                              Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
                              DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
                              DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
                              DS, 21, chemistry major
                              DS, 18, Physics major
                              DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
                              DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
                              DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

                              Comment

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