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    Henle vs. Third and Fourth Form

    I know a variation of this question is asked periodically, but I wanted to reach out and ask for the opinions/experience of your students(children).

    My rising 9th grader began Latin late because she started in private school, and followed the sequence starting with Prima with her younger brother. I grouped those two in Latin and Classical Studies for our first four years of homeschooling and it worked well. But, I realize that I should have let my daughter work ahead in Second Form. She was completing her assignments with ease and is ready for more of a challenge. We have the Henle starter set and I thought she might pick up there. But, we were looking at it this morning and I am wondering if we should rather plan for her to do Third and Fourth Form this year. We like the format, and she will have younger sibs in Third Form (taking the full year) and First Form (taking the full year), so the recitation each day would be a familiar review.

    Has anyone some experience or preferences of their own children in this? Don't get me wrong - we don't vote on curriculum choices - but I'm leaning toward an accelerated Third/Fourth Form plan because I am more comfortable with it - the Henle guide is such a different format that I would have a hard time following along, though she is a self directed learner and really never needs/wants my input!

    suggestions?

    Michelle
    Michelle

    2017-2018
    9th grade MPOA diploma program
    7th grade MP materials (mostly 7A/8 track, a mix because we have grouped subjects with sibs in the past)
    4th grade MP core (thinking about grading up to 4A this summer)
    2nd grade MP core
    3 year old who reminds us to play and snuggle
    Veritas et Fides

    #2
    Re: Henle vs. Third and Fourth Form

    Michelle,

    Third and Fourth Form are extremely hard to accelerate. They are jam-packed and would probably overwhelm the student.

    Having said that though, I still think the Form Series is the best way to go because of the format, but especially because you won't be starting from day 1 again.

    Paul
    Paul Schaeffer
    --
    Director, Schools Division
    Memoria Press

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Henle vs. Third and Fourth Form

      Paul,
      Thank you. That is very helpful. Having no Latin background, I am more comfortable with the format of the Forms. I will not pressure her to accelerate, but will instead have her begin early and keep at it.
      Thanks,
      Michelle
      Michelle

      2017-2018
      9th grade MPOA diploma program
      7th grade MP materials (mostly 7A/8 track, a mix because we have grouped subjects with sibs in the past)
      4th grade MP core (thinking about grading up to 4A this summer)
      2nd grade MP core
      3 year old who reminds us to play and snuggle
      Veritas et Fides

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Henle vs. Third and Fourth Form

        Having had a daughter attempt and do poorly with Henle and a son who just finished Fourth Form, I suggest sticking with the Forms. 3rd and 4th are jam packed, but a dedicated student could do them both in a full year or slightly longer. Just think- if you started over with Henle and intended to finish book one in one year you would be covering all the material in 3rd and 4th (plus the easy stuff from 1st and 2nd) in one year. The Forms workbooks have a lot of pages, but Henle has a lot assigned too. If you intended to do Henle 1 over two years then go ahead and do 3rd and 4th over those two years. Basically- take the time you intended to cover Henle 1 and do 3rd and 4th over that time. It gets you to the same place but lets you focus that entire time on the harder stuff rather than spending half that time reviewing what you already learned in 1st and 2nd.
        Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
        DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
        DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
        DS, 21, chemistry major
        DS, 18, Physics major
        DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
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        Comment


          #5
          Re: Henle vs. Third and Fourth Form

          I did not realize that once you finish 4th Form, you have 'finished' Henle I. Am I understanding this correctly?

          Hmm...may I bring up our scenario for our daughter, starting 9th this year?

          She has completed two years of Classical Conversations where they used Henle First Year. She got up to Lesson 24 Ex. 272 and she does very well with it. She has also almost finished First Form Latin and has done the sections on verbs from 2nd Form Latin (due to me leading a Latin Study Group last summer when we focused on verbs).

          I do own all four forms and I also own Henle First Year and Henle Second Year. I also have MP Guides and Quizzes/Tests for Henle I and II.

          Could someone give me advice for how to proceed over these next four years of high school for her? She is detailed and does well with languages, and I love Latin... I need help because we just quit Classical Conversations and are 'on our own' right now and I just realized there is a wealth of expertise on this forum and thought I'd check in with you here and saw this post...thanks to the original poster!!!

          Thanks,
          Brenda

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Henle vs. Third and Fourth Form

            Originally posted by omma View Post
            I did not realize that once you finish 4th Form, you have 'finished' Henle I. Am I understanding this correctly?

            Hmm...may I bring up our scenario for our daughter, starting 9th this year?

            She has completed two years of Classical Conversations where they used Henle First Year. She got up to Lesson 24 Ex. 272 and she does very well with it. She has also almost finished First Form Latin and has done the sections on verbs from 2nd Form Latin (due to me leading a Latin Study Group last summer when we focused on verbs).

            I do own all four forms and I also own Henle First Year and Henle Second Year. I also have MP Guides and Quizzes/Tests for Henle I and II.

            Could someone give me advice for how to proceed over these next four years of high school for her? She is detailed and does well with languages, and I love Latin... I need help because we just quit Classical Conversations and are 'on our own' right now and I just realized there is a wealth of expertise on this forum and thought I'd check in with you here and saw this post...thanks to the original poster!!!

            Thanks,
            Brenda
            Yes, the Forms series covers everything in Henle I and then some! However, it is difficult to jump into the Forms if you've started Henle already. Since you said she's doing well in Henle and has completed up to Lesson 24 (the end of Unit 6), I would have her do our Units 6-14 guide for 9th grade. That would be worth one high-school credit and would finish Henle I. Then, she would have three years for Caesar, Cicero, and maybe even the AP Exam!
            Michael
            Memoria Press

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Henle vs. Third and Fourth Form

              Originally posted by Michael View Post
              Yes, the Forms series covers everything in Henle I and then some! However, it is difficult to jump into the Forms if you've started Henle already. Since you said she's doing well in Henle and has completed up to Lesson 24 (the end of Unit 6), I would have her do our Units 6-14 guide for 9th grade. That would be worth one high-school credit and would finish Henle I. Then, she would have three years for Caesar, Cicero, and maybe even the AP Exam!
              Great! Thanks so much for your quick and thoughtful response based on all your expertise, Michael! I really appreciate it!!!! We will do as you suggest!

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Henle vs. Third and Fourth Form

                Michael,

                I have the Henle Latin Study Guide for Units VI-XIV and the appropriate quizzes/tests, but I do not have the study guides for Units I-V as we just did Henle Latin with the guide from Classical Conversations. I love the grammar cards, but I only have from #68 forward. Is there a way to access #1-67?

                Thanks so much.

                Also, if I may be so bold as to ask another question, I need to figure out what is best for my son. He is NOT detailed, but he enjoys seeing what he knows in translating bigger passages from Latin to English. And he used to enjoy making up his own sentences in Latin and putting them on the board. He feels 'burnt out' on Latin for various reasons, but I would like to eek out one more year of Latin credit for him before he finishes high school (even if it takes doing it 1/2 time over his junior and senior year. He has basically finished Unit VIII in Henle I by taking three years of Henle I in Classical Conversations (this last year wasn't as productive). For two summers, he has studied First Form and Second Form Latin (finishing most of the first and only verbs in the second). I have to tell you that, unlike my daughter, he does not like the Form Series as he does not like writing words out over and over. He is a Quizlet lover and just looks up his vocab. words there (he has typed in endless amounts of Latin vocab. words for Quizlet over the past couple of years)

                Question #1: Can I give him two credits of high school latin for his work so far? (I think I can, but wanted your opinion)
                Question #2: Any tips for how I could proceed with him? I'd like to get him to Henle II faster than his sister who will be doing the study guide. He has already used your study guide up to week 14. Perhaps I am answering my own question here as I type. I suppose I should just start with week 14 and just focus on getting him through Henle I also this year. It's the high school credit issue that concerns me, though, and I'd like to hear your take on our approach.

                Thank you!
                Brenda

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Henle vs. Third and Fourth Form

                  Originally posted by omma View Post
                  Michael,

                  I have the Henle Latin Study Guide for Units VI-XIV and the appropriate quizzes/tests, but I do not have the study guides for Units I-V as we just did Henle Latin with the guide from Classical Conversations. I love the grammar cards, but I only have from #68 forward. Is there a way to access #1-67?

                  Thanks so much.

                  Also, if I may be so bold as to ask another question, I need to figure out what is best for my son. He is NOT detailed, but he enjoys seeing what he knows in translating bigger passages from Latin to English. And he used to enjoy making up his own sentences in Latin and putting them on the board. He feels 'burnt out' on Latin for various reasons, but I would like to eek out one more year of Latin credit for him before he finishes high school (even if it takes doing it 1/2 time over his junior and senior year. He has basically finished Unit VIII in Henle I by taking three years of Henle I in Classical Conversations (this last year wasn't as productive). For two summers, he has studied First Form and Second Form Latin (finishing most of the first and only verbs in the second). I have to tell you that, unlike my daughter, he does not like the Form Series as he does not like writing words out over and over. He is a Quizlet lover and just looks up his vocab. words there (he has typed in endless amounts of Latin vocab. words for Quizlet over the past couple of years)

                  Question #1: Can I give him two credits of high school latin for his work so far? (I think I can, but wanted your opinion)
                  Question #2: Any tips for how I could proceed with him? I'd like to get him to Henle II faster than his sister who will be doing the study guide. He has already used your study guide up to week 14. Perhaps I am answering my own question here as I type. I suppose I should just start with week 14 and just focus on getting him through Henle I also this year. It's the high school credit issue that concerns me, though, and I'd like to hear your take on our approach.

                  Thank you!
                  Brenda
                  For the grammar cards, send me an email at michael@memoriapress.com and I'll see what we can do 😀

                  As for your other questions,

                  #1: You mentioned your son has two years of high school left. What exactly did he do each of the previous years in Latin. The following is what I inferred from your post, but please correct me if I'm wrong!

                  8th: Henle I, units I-V (the CC schedule)
                  9th: Henle I, units I-VIII (the CC schedule); part of First Form over the following summer
                  10th: Henle I, units I-XIV (the CC schedule, but he's only really mastered through Unit VIII); part of First Form and Second Form over the summer

                  Including his summer work, I think you could absolutely give one high-school credit for 9th and 10th grade. You could probably give another credit for completing Henle I, units IX-XIV in 11th. Perhaps supplement his junior year with our Lingua Angelica or Lingua Biblica programs for more translation work (to help with feeling burnt out) and to make the year more "worthy" of a high-school credit.

                  #2: You definitely answered your own question! As far as rekindling interest in Latin, Henle I has lots of reading passages. If your son enjoys those, I would add them in as you come across them, even if our guide skips them. As long as he has mastered his grammar and vocabulary, and works carefully (not carelessly) on these readings, the readings should be fine to include. You could also add Lingua Angelica or Lingua Biblica as I mentioned earlier, as long as they don't interfere with mastering the grammar.

                  For his senior year, would he be interested in Henle II? It would allow him to crown his years of Latin study with reading Caesar's account of his wars in Gaul over 2000 years ago. Our published guides focus on just the exercises that Henle wrote, so in your son's case, I would recommend our Online Academy as it will do all of Henle II in one year, led by a Latin expert. Here's a link to the class: https://www.memoriapressacademy.com/...tin-iii-caesar

                  I hope this has helped. If you have any further questions, please ask away! Perhaps some other forum users whose children have navigated Latin burn-out and high-school credits will chime in as well.
                  Michael
                  Memoria Press

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