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    Science for a non-science minded student

    One more question. My 9th grader did not take any science this year. He did an online class last year with Kolbe and I think it was too much for him. He enjoyed the class itself, but it was his first time with hard set deadlines, and a structure that wasn't too intuitive for him. For our state, 2 years of science is required - at minimum a physical science and biology. I was thinking of having him do the Novare physical science course next year and then high school level biology in 11th. Then reevaluate and possibly add a third science in 12th grade - either physics or chemistry. He is not a STEM student, but a humanities student looking to major in classical history/languages. I want him to have a science foundation but am not worried about him needing a strong enough foundation for someone who wishes to major in a math/science field. Any ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated.
    Brit

    Catholic mom to five
    Prospective 2019-2020:
    Ds '01 - College freshman: Thomas Aquinas College
    Ds '03 - 10th grade: MPOA (SFL, biology, Algebra 2), MP 10M lit, US history, and MoDG religion
    Ds '06 - 8th: MP Tiner science (chemistry, physics, and astronomy), 8M lit, 8M Exploring Planet Earth, FFL, ancient history, OLVS 8 Catechism
    Dd '10 (Down syndrome) - JrK with SC C adaptations
    Ds '15 - JrK with big sister

    #2
    Re: Science for a non-science minded student

    Following as well!
    PAX,
    Theresa

    ds -27-ICU Nurse
    ds -24-Grad school: DeSales U. Physician's Assistant Program
    dd -21-Working and taking online courses for vet tech
    dd -12-7M along with some MPOA classes

    "I am a product of long corridors, empty sunlit rooms, upstairs indoor silences, attics explored in solitude, distant noises of gurgling cisterns and pipes, and the noise of wind under the tiles. Also, of endless books." -C.S. Lewis

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Science for a non-science minded student

      I personally happen to think science is very important for a classical education, for developing a well rounded person. If you look at the quadrivium, there is first arithmetic and geometry and then astronomy and music. First is the math and then the application of math. What used to be astronomy could now be "science". Science is applied math- especially the chemistry and physics. I would strongly encourage you to consider 3 years of science and may I offer this possible path- Novarre offers a "physics first" course where physics is designed to be the first high school science. It is supposed to be a great, gentle introduction to applied mathematical science. Perhaps your son could do that physics course first, then biology and then in his last year do chemistry. If you really think you won't get to chemistry, then do the physical science and biology. But I think you will find that the physics course is more gentle than the physical science course and it allows you to save chemistry till he is older and has more math under his belt. I have never used the Novarre products and I am only going by what has been discussed on this forum.
      Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
      DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
      DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
      DS, 21, chemistry major
      DS, 18, Physics major
      DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
      DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
      DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Science for a non-science minded student

        I'm wondering if your son might enjoy our online science classes. Since he isn't overly interested in science, he might do better to be accountable to someone other than you to get the most out of science. I know that was true with my sons. But I wasn't passionate about science either, so I tried to outsource those subjects to a teacher who did have a passionate interest.

        Tanya

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Science for a non-science minded student

          Thank you both for your input. The Intro to Physics book was another I saw when looking at options. That sounds like it might be a better course for him next year.

          Tanya - I'll have to look at the online classes. We are on the west coast, so sometimes the timing doesn't work out (he claims he could get up for a 6:30am class but I don't want to be the one making sure that happens!)

          Poor kid is my Guinnea pig. And his first year of high school has been tough because his youngest brother was born just after it began. But we continue to roll along, plus he's now considering a partial gap year at home with part-time enrollment a the local community college following his 12th grade year. Time will tell.
          Brit

          Catholic mom to five
          Prospective 2019-2020:
          Ds '01 - College freshman: Thomas Aquinas College
          Ds '03 - 10th grade: MPOA (SFL, biology, Algebra 2), MP 10M lit, US history, and MoDG religion
          Ds '06 - 8th: MP Tiner science (chemistry, physics, and astronomy), 8M lit, 8M Exploring Planet Earth, FFL, ancient history, OLVS 8 Catechism
          Dd '10 (Down syndrome) - JrK with SC C adaptations
          Ds '15 - JrK with big sister

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Science for a non-science minded student

            MyLittleWonders,
            Momgineer has given you good advice: Novare Introductory Physics in 10th, Biology in 11th, and Chemistry in 12th. If he has not learned about the periodic table of the elements, I would add a summer review of chapter 6 from Novare Physical Science prior to biology.

            I also agree with Tanya that an MPOA science course would provide great support for him.

            Best wishes!
            Cindy Davis
            Math and science teacher
            HLS - Indianapolis
            Cindy Davis
            Science and Math teacher at Highlands Latin School - Indianapolis
            ds-25 college graduate: autodidact, working to pay the bills
            ds-23 college graduate: 1st year med school
            dd-21 college senior: Nursing

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Science for a non-science minded student

              Originally posted by Benedictine15 View Post
              Following as well!
              Theresa,
              Since your student is younger, I recommend the following sequence:
              8th grade: Novare Physical Science
              9th grade: Novare Introductory Physics
              10th grade: Biology
              11th grade: Chemistry
              12th grade: your choice - Anatomy and Physiology, Adv Bio, Adv Chem, or Adv Physics, depending on student's interest and strengths.

              Much to look forward to!

              Cindy Davis
              Math and science teacher,
              HLS - Indianapolis
              Cindy Davis
              Science and Math teacher at Highlands Latin School - Indianapolis
              ds-25 college graduate: autodidact, working to pay the bills
              ds-23 college graduate: 1st year med school
              dd-21 college senior: Nursing

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Science for a non-science minded student

                Originally posted by Cindy in Indy View Post
                Theresa,
                Since your student is younger, I recommend the following sequence:
                8th grade: Novare Physical Science
                9th grade: Novare Introductory Physics
                10th grade: Biology
                11th grade: Chemistry
                12th grade: your choice - Anatomy and Physiology, Adv Bio, Adv Chem, or Adv Physics, depending on student's interest and strengths.

                Much to look forward to!

                Cindy Davis
                Math and science teacher,
                HLS - Indianapolis
                Thank you Cindy for including me! That sounds like the direction we are headed in. My daughter seems more interested in just the *nature* part of science. We haven't hit physics yet. I plan on using the online academy once she is in 8th or 9th grade.
                PAX,
                Theresa

                ds -27-ICU Nurse
                ds -24-Grad school: DeSales U. Physician's Assistant Program
                dd -21-Working and taking online courses for vet tech
                dd -12-7M along with some MPOA classes

                "I am a product of long corridors, empty sunlit rooms, upstairs indoor silences, attics explored in solitude, distant noises of gurgling cisterns and pipes, and the noise of wind under the tiles. Also, of endless books." -C.S. Lewis

                Comment


                  #9
                  Brit,

                  I know this is an old post, but I was wondering if you could update with how this plan worked out for you. I am in the same boat you were in when you wrote this.

                  Thank you,

                  Christina
                  Christina

                  9th grader MPOA/state virtual school, 6th in private school, 4th hodgepodge homeschool (only girl), and a 4 year old pediatric cancer patient.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by happyhappyjoyjoy View Post
                    Brit,

                    I know this is an old post, but I was wondering if you could update with how this plan worked out for you. I am in the same boat you were in when you wrote this.

                    Thank you,

                    Christina
                    Hi Christina,

                    I think you have to quote Brit in order to get her attention. I've also seen sassy younger (than me) moms do some sort of fancy happyhappyjoyjoy [COOL IT WORKED!] PSYCH!!! Howdopeopleknowallthesefancytricks?!?!?!


                    As for the above suggested sequence, it worked in my house quite well. My 3rd child who is now a Junior at The Catholic University of America studying to be an elementary school teacher was very science hesitant. Her courses were:

                    8th: Physical science - a hodgepodge of physics and either chemistry or earth science, depending on the publisher - definitely considered Middle School by college admissions officers

                    9th: "intro" Physics - uses only algebra, not calculus

                    10th: Biology

                    11th: Chemistry - which, as it turned out, she loved! She needed to build her confidence in math, so taking it in 11th grade was magic for her



                    And obviously, for a non-STEM kid, you could look at those three high school science credits for the 10th-12th grades. Why that is not actually optimal to start the sequence in 10th, though, is this: not only is 12th grade packed with end-of-high-school activities, and chemistry is quite intense for non-math students which can put a burden on the 12th grade year, but then the student loses the opportunity to take a science based "elective". Three science credits are definitely respectable, but four is becoming a standard. However, don't let earning a 4th science credit dampen anyone's confidence in this process. By high school, students need to customize toward goals: the world of work, the military, community college/2/3 year degrees, 4-year degrees, etc.



                    Jen
                    DS, 26 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace), recently completed the design and execution of unhackable military software... in his spare time.

                    DS, 24 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

                    DD, 21 yrs, Senior in Education at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC

                    DS, 11 yrs, 6M: complete!

                    All homeschooled.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you Jen! I will tag her. My son is in 8th/9th this year and taking Earth Space Science through our state virtual school. He will eventually dual enroll and have is AA at high school graduation, which is why I haven't decided if I will classify him as 9th this year. If I give him extra time in high school, he will have time to finish those classes for free. I'm really going back and forth with having him use the state classes for science, because he is not a science guy. They are free but mediocre. I am wondering if it would be better to use Novare at home. He is maxed on MPOA, and I don't think we can fit science in there. The option of just waiting on science for dual enrollment is there for 2 science classes, but I don't know that that is wise. I worry he would be unprepared. He is excelling in Latin and Algebra. He is doing well with lit and history.

                      So if I were to use Novare at home, would you suggest starting with Physical science or just going to Intro to Physics?
                      Christina

                      9th grader MPOA/state virtual school, 6th in private school, 4th hodgepodge homeschool (only girl), and a 4 year old pediatric cancer patient.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by MyLittleWonders View Post
                        One more question. My 9th grader did not take any science this year. He did an online class last year with Kolbe and I think it was too much for him. He enjoyed the class itself, but it was his first time with hard set deadlines, and a structure that wasn't too intuitive for him. For our state, 2 years of science is required - at minimum a physical science and biology. I was thinking of having him do the Novare physical science course next year and then high school level biology in 11th. Then reevaluate and possibly add a third science in 12th grade - either physics or chemistry. He is not a STEM student, but a humanities student looking to major in classical history/languages. I want him to have a science foundation but am not worried about him needing a strong enough foundation for someone who wishes to major in a math/science field. Any ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated.

                        Can you tell me how this worked out for you? I am in a similar boat.
                        Christina

                        9th grader MPOA/state virtual school, 6th in private school, 4th hodgepodge homeschool (only girl), and a 4 year old pediatric cancer patient.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by happyhappyjoyjoy View Post
                          Thank you Jen! I will tag her. My son is in 8th/9th this year and taking Earth Space Science through our state virtual school. He will eventually dual enroll and have is AA at high school graduation, which is why I haven't decided if I will classify him as 9th this year.

                          So if I were to use Novare at home, would you suggest starting with Physical science or just going to Intro to Physics?

                          Personally, I feel like if you aren't sure *if* he is 8th or 9th this year, you'd be wise to choose 8th! Pushing and rushing rarely ends well.

                          And then that makes the science decision quite simple: next SY, his 9th grade year, he can simply begin with Intro Physics, a high school level, algebra based course that will assuredly count for high school credit (unlike Physical science which is sketchy for high school credit).

                          Of course, he could also use the other options you mentioned.


                          Jen
                          DS, 26 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace), recently completed the design and execution of unhackable military software... in his spare time.

                          DS, 24 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

                          DD, 21 yrs, Senior in Education at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC

                          DS, 11 yrs, 6M: complete!

                          All homeschooled.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            That helps. Thank you. I agree. I am all for letting him feel like it is his 9th grade year and telling people he's in 9th. It will all even out when he dual enrolls and won't matter If it helps his self-confidence to say he is in 9th while I am the one taking care of the transcript then we're both happy. I will have to mull over which classes this year count for H.S. then. Algebra I will for sure. Take care Jen
                            Christina

                            9th grader MPOA/state virtual school, 6th in private school, 4th hodgepodge homeschool (only girl), and a 4 year old pediatric cancer patient.

                            Comment

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