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    High School Comp/rhetoric

    To build off of Stuart's previous question....for those kids that start the Classical Composition books late, such as in seventh or eighth...what is a good plan for high school? Do they just keep doing two a year until they are done? Is there a point when they do Cothran's Rhetoric course? Will they need to supplement for test preps or research papers? Or will the writing they do in their other subjects be sufficient?

    I was not planning to have my eldest do it, but now that my son is getting further into it, and seeing what he is practicing, I am realizing I want her to do it too. But I would like to have a big picture idea of it for someone in her shoes.

    Thanks!
    AMDG,
    Sarah
    2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
    DD, 18, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
    DS, 16
    DD, 14
    DD, 12
    DD, 10
    DD, 7.5
    DD, 5.5
    +DS+
    DS, 18 months

    #2
    Sarah,

    When you start CC late, you need to complete 2 stages each year until you are caught up. That is no problem. You just do what you can out of one stage the first semester and then move on to the next stage the next semester. You don't need to complete the entire book because you will need review lessons at the beginning of each year. We would look at Rhetoric as a semester long course students would do in addition to CC. You could actually use Rhetoric as a semester of English. If you don't like the idea of doing CC and Rhetoric together, just drop CC for a semester. Once you have gotten through the Refutation/Confirmation Stage, you will have all the basics you need from CC, and the rest of the stages are just gravy! But I would highly recommend that you do complete logic and rhetoric. I think those courses really help students to learn to think logically, make arguments, defend their own beliefs, and recognize the fallacies in other people's arguments. Martin Cothran likes to think of logic as English, not math.

    Regards,

    Tanya

    Comment


      #3
      Perfect! That helps tremendously!

      About the logic...better to take a year for each Trad. Logic, or okay to do as a semester? We have plenty of time I think....just wondering if one way is better for the student over another.

      Thanks!
      AMDG,
      Sarah
      2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
      DD, 18, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
      DS, 16
      DD, 14
      DD, 12
      DD, 10
      DD, 7.5
      DD, 5.5
      +DS+
      DS, 18 months

      Comment


        #4
        Hi, Sarah.

        We recommend that middle school students take a year for each logic course, but high schoolers can easily complete Traditional Logic I in one semester and TLII the next semester. The same is true for Material Logic and Rhetoric - one semester each.

        Regards,

        Tanya

        Comment


          #5
          Tanya,

          Thanks for the help....so here's what I am thinking:

          Eighth thru Twelfth...do CC two books per year
          Eighth, Ninth, Tenth....finish the Rod and Staff English curriculum
          Eleventh....Trad Logic I/II
          Twelfth......Material Logic/Rhetoric

          Does that look good?

          AMDG,
          Sarah
          2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
          DD, 18, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
          DS, 16
          DD, 14
          DD, 12
          DD, 10
          DD, 7.5
          DD, 5.5
          +DS+
          DS, 18 months

          Comment


            #6
            Sarah,

            The only thing I would tweak is the R&S English through high school. I don't really think all that English grammar is necessary. Your high school student really just needs to concentrate on learning to write well. And Latin is going to take care of your analytical English grammar. If your student has a good working knowledge of grammar by high school, I would suggest that you work on English grammar through writing practice, requiring structurally good sentences. You could get the 8th grade R&S English book to use as a supplement when needed, and when you see your student making grammar mistakes in a certain area consistently, pull it out and practice that concept. Actually, now that I've written all this, I'm thinking R&S doesn't even have a high school curriculum, so the 8th grade book may be your only option!

            Cheers,

            Tanya

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for the redirection...would that move our Logic lessons up then?

              So an alternate would be:
              Eighth....Trad Logic I
              Ninth......Trad Logic II
              Tenth......Material Logic
              Eleventh..Rhetoric

              Or by the time we get to Material Logic/Rhetoric, go ahead and do them together in tenth?
              If so, do we need anything in eleventh and twelfth?

              She is doing well in Latin, so I keep forgetting that that is the really valuable grammar!

              AMDG,
              Sarah
              2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
              DD, 18, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
              DS, 16
              DD, 14
              DD, 12
              DD, 10
              DD, 7.5
              DD, 5.5
              +DS+
              DS, 18 months

              Comment


                #8
                Sarah,

                This is a fine way to do it. Really, with logic, since these are semester courses in high school, you can place them in a semester where your student has a lighter load. They will be more enjoyable if they aren't piled on top of an already loaded curriculum. I'm not sure where we are going to work these classes in when we get to the high school packaged curriculum. I'm thinking it will probably look similar to yours, only we may put TLI and TLII in the 9th grade year. In 10th-12th grades, we have a year of AP American history and 2 years of American/Modern history, so we'll have to get Material Logic and Rhetoric worked in too. Hmmmm.

                Tanya

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well, it sounds like.for now, it won't be planned for the eighth grade package, so since I am planning to buy the LP for eighth and then ninth, we should wait until ninth. And now that you mention that, I am remembering you mentioned that once before.

                  For now, we'll get started on CC in eighth, and maybe do a wrap up year of english grammer with the rod and staff book, and follow the mp progrssion for logic/rhetoric. It does eliminate a need for eighth, so this has been helpful. Thanks!!!

                  AMDG,
                  Sarah
                  2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
                  DD, 18, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
                  DS, 16
                  DD, 14
                  DD, 12
                  DD, 10
                  DD, 7.5
                  DD, 5.5
                  +DS+
                  DS, 18 months

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I love this plan! That gives your student a year to really concentrate on Classical Composition without adding too many new things!

                    Cheers,

                    Tanya

                    Comment

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