Science placement for 9th grade!

[TaraT]

Here we are again..... The lovely time of year when I pour over books and researching until my head hurts and its always because of SCIENCE! ugh!

Going into 9th. Finishing Foerster Algebra 1 and did great. Finishing Novare Physical science. We have no idea what his future college or career might be at this point so we want him to be prepared for anything! He is quite smart and remembers things well. BUT he is still maturing in self-discipline and actually desiring to learn what is before him verses just checking the boxes to get done asap. 13yr almost 14yr.

Trying to decide if he should do IP next year ( big brother finishing it this year) or a Biology (still contemplating and comparing Holt vs Apologia vs Novare). Also does MP have any plans to publish IP lesson plans?? Its the little things that can make a big difference. ha!

Cindy in Indy

Any and all advice welcome!!

[pickandgrin]

Based on what you shared, what we are doing might also be a good path for your son:

I really like Novare Intro to Physics (9th) after Physical Science (8th), then follow with Novare Chemistry (10th), then Novare Biology (11th). Their Bio is nothing like a middle school range memorization course; someone who'd done a simple 8th grade Bio course could easily redo Novare Biology and learn much more. We had a student do this this school year and this was her feedback. There is some cell chemistry and it was plenty hard to make a robust high school science year. We also do Alg 2 along with IP, not Geometry. I also like how easy Geometry is after doing a year of Traditional Logic 1 & 2!

On our path you can choose your own adventure for 12th. For kiddo #1, we are doing Cal 1/Physics 1 as DE in 12th at a local college. Kiddo #2 may not do that.

HTH!

[Mrs Bee]

Our path is also very similar to Jessica's family:

* in 9th we've just completed Algebra II and Novare IP (and also Trad Logic I and II)

* in 10th they will do Geometry and Novare Biology (with Schole' Academy because MPOA is still with Holt and I really wanted to do Novare)

* in 11th there will be Pre-Calculus and Chemistry, not sure where: I really wanted a Christian framework for Biology, building on Novare's philosophy of science that we've encountered with IP - for Chemistry I haven't decided what to do because I would love something in person, even at a community college for a high school level class. We may well end up just doing Novare Chemistry instead...

* 12th grade, as Jessica said, is wide open: it will very likely be a DE physics class for my son (though it would be a sacrifice to leave on the table Mr. A'Hearn and his Novare Advanced Physics with MPOA! But college choice might make DE a necessity, we'll see) and Anatomy and Physiology with MPOA for my daughter.

Doing IP early means that my daughter has done a solid high school physics class and that's all she will ever need; at the same time it will give my son the opportunity to dig deep in 12th. It also buys another year, in terms of maturity and studying stamina, before tackling more challenging subjects like Bio and Chem. Basically what Jessica said!

[Mrs Bee]

Sorry, maybe it's not clear from what I wrote that my two older kids work together... I should tinker my signature!

[TaraT]

Based on what you shared, what we are doing might also be a good path for your son:

I really like Novare Intro to Physics (9th) after Physical Science (8th), then follow with Novare Chemistry (10th), then Novare Biology (11th). Their Bio is nothing like a middle school range memorization course; someone who'd done a simple 8th grade Bio course could easily redo Novare Biology and learn much more. We had a student do this this school year and this was her feedback. There is some cell chemistry and it was plenty hard to make a robust high school science year. We also do Alg 2 along with IP, not Geometry. I also like how easy Geometry is after doing a year of Traditional Logic 1 & 2!

On our path you can choose your own adventure for 12th. For kiddo #1, we are doing Cal 1/Physics 1 as DE in 12th at a local college. Kiddo #2 may not do that.

HTH!

Thank you!!!

You and Mrs Bee mentioned doing Algebra 2 and after then geometry. Please can you both Mrs Bee tell me why you chose this verses the more traditional A1, Geometry, then A2??

And why you chose Chemistry before Biology?

Also my son has had Traditional Logic 1 and 2!!

[pickandgrin]

TaraT
Cindy Davis is the best at explaining this!

Here's a pedestrian, non-science teacher, nutshell version:
Geometry was inserted between the Alg 1 & 2 classes (which is just one subject split over two school years) to prepare students for more Geometry on standardized tests. It is my understanding that over the last few revisions, the amount of geometry has been reduced on standardized college-entrance tests. It is still there, for sure, but less emphasis than in the past. Cindy Davis is your trusted guide on this. Hopefully she can chime in (and completely correct me if I'm wrong!).

Also, the work in Algebra is more directly related to the math in the first few years of high school science, particularly in the Physics course. It's worked for us with two so we are sticking with it. One caution on this choice is the importance of staying fresh with Algebra while studying Geometry in 11th for purposes of those standardized tests. In our experience, it's easier to be staying fresh through science math/review than to be learning it while taking tests. It's worked for kiddos 1 and 2 so we are sticking with it. Students take ACT/SAT/CLT at different times, so that timing will have a big impact as well.

Another note: We are using the Prentice Hall Classics Alg 1 & 2, then the Houghton Mifflin Geometry. If you are doing a comprehensive and less partitioned math like Video Text, you may want to ignore what we are doing. The Alg 2 we use handles some Trig at the end of the book.

We personally chose Chemistry first because we were waiting on the Novare Biology to be beta-tested and the final copy published! That was totally logistical and didn't have anything philosophical behind it. We called Novare and they said it would be no problem. Again, we liked the flow of Chem then Bio after trying it, so we are sticking with it. So long as a student has the pre-req math skills, there is some flexibility on the sequence. Each have different pros/cons to moving them in a different order. Like Mrs. Bee and me, you may choose a certain sequence based on what is available locally, online, or either with a teacher you really like. By that age the student's schedule is a real factor and even something you like may not work with other classes or work. You can only take so many classes per week, especially if they meet more than once online or in person. If you are self-studying at home, then you have to make time daily/most days to get through.

Great news on the Traditional Logic!! It made proofs a non-event for my oldest and his friends. "Mom, this is just logic!" they said.

HTH!

[momgineer]

I’d like to offer an alternative path and one that MP has in their packages. That is to consider doing biology in 9th, followed by chemistry and then a trig based physics in 11th. Your child is a strong math student, having finished algebra 1 well in 8th. Without a clear path for the future, why not leave a STEM path open? IP is great- my non college bound daughter did this for 9th and my STEM bound son did it in 8th. It’s great for those who never want to take a trig based physics so they can have a solid understanding of basic physics. However, it seems like a year wasted for anyone who thinks they might need trig physics and whose math is ready for high school science to take IP in 9th. If you do biology (while you get another year of math under your belt) in 9th, then your math will be ready for chemistry in 10th (should be concurrently taking algebra 2 or better yet have finished it). Then in 11th while taking pre-calculus, take trig based physics. The basic trig needed for this is taught in geometry and will be mastered in pre-calculus.
This path leaves senior year open for anatomy or a college/AP level science of the student’s choice.
Novare offers books for all of these options or you can use MP’s biology option which is good too.

[pickandgrin]

momgineer
Thanks for adding this. Can you give an example of a trig-based physics course for 11th? Is this the same as vector physics or different?

[TaraT]

I’d like to offer an alternative path and one that MP has in their packages. That is to consider doing biology in 9th, followed by chemistry and then a trig based physics in 11th. Your child is a strong math student, having finished algebra 1 well in 8th. Without a clear path for the future, why not leave a STEM path open? IP is great- my non college bound daughter did this for 9th and my STEM bound son did it in 8th. It’s great for those who never want to take a trig based physics so they can have a solid understanding of basic physics. However, it seems like a year wasted for anyone who thinks they might need trig physics and whose math is ready for high school science to take IP in 9th. If you do biology (while you get another year of math under your belt) in 9th, then your math will be ready for chemistry in 10th (should be concurrently taking algebra 2 or better yet have finished it). Then in 11th while taking pre-calculus, take trig based physics. The basic trig needed for this is taught in geometry and will be mastered in pre-calculus.
This path leaves senior year open for anatomy or a college/AP level science of the student’s choice.
Novare offers books for all of these options or you can use MP’s biology option which is good too.

I have thought of this also and read it elsewhere. IP was written so ALL students, meaning even the non-STEM student, could have a physics course. So considering my son is advanced in math and is possibly a STEM student, I have also thought that I don't want to "waste" a year in IP when he can do a more advanced Physics later.

Thank you for your response. :-)

momgineer so if Modeling Nature a trig-based physics? and is that what Apologia Physics is as well??

[momgineer]

momgineer
Thanks for adding this. Can you give an example of a trig-based physics course for 11th? Is this the same as vector physics or different?

Vector physics and trig physics are the same thing. Physics is really a math based science but it can be taught in many levels- conceptual with no math, algebra based (Introductory Physics or freshman physics), trig based (typical high school physics), and calculus based (college level physics).
Novare’s Physics Modeling Nature is trig based and is what we plan to use. It is the book used in MPOA for advanced physics. This is the level most high school teach junior or senior year. I am not familiar enough with Apologia to say for sure if it is trig based or not.

[momgineer]

Novare used to have a document that gave two science paths- one for average students and one for those seeking an advanced science path. Average students take Introductory Physics (algebra based) in 9th because they probably wouldn’t ever take trig physics. They then take chemistry and biology in 10-11 and senior year can take anatomy, trig physics if they decided they need that, or advanced Chem or bio or simply be done with science. Advanced/honors students take bio in 9th, Chem in 10th, trig physics (Modeling Nature) in 11th and any college level science in 12th.

[momgineer]

Here's the PDF momgineer mentioned: [ATTACH]n130933[/ATTACH]

That actually isn’t the document I was referring to. This is an MP document that doesn’t follow the Novare recommendations. I’m not sure if the document exists now that CAP has control
of Novare. I’ll have to dig around. It used to be on the now non existent Novare website.

[jen1134]

That actually isn’t the document I was referring to. This is an MP document that doesn’t follow the Novare recommendations. I’m not sure if the document exists now that CAP has control
of Novare. I’ll have to dig around. It used to be on the now non existent Novare website.

Got it. I'll take it down then.

[momgineer]

Wait my post dissappeared

[momgineer]

Got it. I'll take it down then.

My apologies Jen. While that wasn’t the document I was referring to, it incorporates the same material. I did find the website is back up and I found this https://novarescienceandmath.com/rec...math-sequence/
inalso see I was mistaken in Novare’s honors track. Mia culpa.