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    #31
    jen1134

    So. very. true.

    I personally feel that difficult history of no money, no resources, little family, no safety net and it's not a fun memory, is it? And I will admit that those memories definitely impact my perspective, because I don't want to go through that again for myself or my kids. It is fair to say it colors my opinions when it comes to the college/debt/income scenario. It's absolutely fair.

    Unfortunately, I didn't hear God calling me clearly in any of these areas I pursued - and I added another degree and more debt on top of the 1st one. Yeah...that loan will be around until after my own kids are in college. Sure I ended up with a 6 figure job in the end. But the only time I felt called had nothing to do with all of the pursuits from 17-33. In fact, the only call I ever felt was to walk away from all of it. Hubby and I married at 18, but kids were late coming even after years of trying. One day at 32 it happened. Then 6 months later it happened again, then again..and then again!!!! I was called - just called "out" and not "in" to the workforce - and that blew my socks off. You are right. It doesn't matter the cost or the carried debt, His voice is strong, yet gentle, and persistent. I've never been so scared to follow that lead instead of staying the course I was on. Oh, but the peace you get when you realize you are exactly where you should be.

    I like your points though. I do!

    So, from the perspective of an idealist - what if you are 18 - and you're not getting that clear call? What's the next step? Start the general studies? That's not a bad idea. But where do you start those? If you still don't have direction, but you do have a bit more time to figure things out, does it make sense to spend that time at a "good college" spending $3-4K per class, or spend that time at a local community college for $300-400 per class when they are virtually the same credits? If that good college is so picky that community college credits for general studies won't transfer, is it safe to question the ethics of that good college- does that raise a red flag for anyone else besides me?

    I would want people to be picky about what they pay for and what they invest their time in, and honest about what they can get out of it. What college actually is - and more importantly, what it isn't - is where my concerns come from. At the end, it was only the credential, not the knowledge or skill set, that employers cared about for both hubby and me. All of my education, a science degree and an MBA/Acctg degree, and no class, not one, thought that teaching Excel was a good idea. Seriously - no spreadsheets. No data management or data mining. No VLookups, No pivot tables. No data manipulation. Sure, I knew a few accounting rules and equations, and knew the molecular weights on the periodic table, yet every job in the accounting and science related fields requires this basic knowledge of Excel- so where was the course? When you sum up everything that was actually "learnable and transferable", there wasn't much there that applied to the workforce once you got here. You still start out at nearly every job, kind of clueless. So, it begs the question...what did we just pay for? Did we just learn at the feet of "Masters of the trade? Or, did I just "buy" a credential?

    What If your calling is to create a personal master skill like you mentioned - which is different from a science/business education (where your credentials are marketed to others), does college provide that real value and mentorship to justify the high cost? Again, are you truly at the feet of the Masters? Was that the only route? Was it the best one? Now, maybe it is. It just stands to reason that if you want to be a master of a skill - go find a Master. Go find several. What about rather than taking on debt, work for minimum wage as an apprentice until you've learned as much as can be learned, and then move on to the next Master.

    Do you see what I mean about finding a convenient place to stop thinking? I do it ALL OF THE TIME. At great personal cost. Go back to that marine biologist idea. If I want to be a marine biologist, I still have to be able to find work as one in order to "be" one. The few jobs I can find using today's resources are predominantly in academia - and those jobs required much more than a Bachelors and I wasn't willing to commit to that nor did I want to teach (HAHAHAHAHA!). The only reason I looked at Eckerd College 20 years ago? It's one of the few in the state of FL with that major. Ask me how reputable that major was. Ask me who the target employers might be (public or private sector). Ask me anything of real merit about the professors, the classes, the alumni, the opportunities of having a degree from that school might create. Ask me if I had any actual exposure to a real live marine biologist outside of a high school summer class. I've got nothing. It isn't enough to just theoretically and vaguely want something at those price tags. There are hundreds of degrees just like that - and we pick them with only the most vague notion of what that might mean.

    I'm not saying DON"T pick limited career paths - although I didn't word this right earlier. But, DO have your eyes wide open, because those roads are challenging and adult life circumstances are ever changing. Be really comfortable and honest with that choice based on every shred of information you can get, and do the best you can to remove the fantasy of it, and insert the attainable reality of it. If you can face the reality of it, and that makes you happy, then let no one get in the way! Which means, never find a comfortable place to stop thinking - you have to work a lot harder than everyone else.
    Melissa

    DS (MP3) - 9
    DS (MP2) - 7/8
    DS (K) - 6
    DD (Adorable distraction) 2 1/2

    Comment


      #32
      We have a mixed bag of experience and perspective in our family as well. My dh had no money, no support, no encouragement other than one teacher at his high school who told him he should go to college. So he applied where his best friends were going - U of I. He got tons of aid plus work study. He (non-Catholic, barely Christian at the time) and his Muslim friend decided to live at the Catholic Newman center because it was the cheapest dorm on campus and was right next to the quad. He worked in the cafeteria to get free meals, while also doing the work study job in the financial aid office. Then he had classes and flight hours.

      My parents told us they would pay for us to go wherever we wanted. I was good in school, so I got catalogs from everybody, and though how cool it would be to see where I could get in. But then I realized there was an application fee for each one. So I chose to only apply to U of I (because we were a family of Illini) and Notre Dame (because we thought it was a Catholic school - that's how little we knew about such things despite 12 years of Catholic school). Got in to both. But I won a National Merit Scholarship, which U of I would take (making me basically pay room and board), but ND would not. In my book, this was an easy decision, made solely on cost. I also really didn't know what I wanted to do, so I started out in the College of Commerce, switched to LA's because I detested Economics, and used all my electives to be considered pre-med. My plan was to either go to med school or law school - I couldn't really decided which - so I also interviewed with banks and consulting firms based in Chicago. I graduated with honors in 3.5 years - and STILL DID NOT KNOW what I wanted to do.

      BOTH of us made radical changes to our "plans of life" (or in my case, lack thereof) as soon as we met each other. He realized he loved flying, but that it would years of crazy hours and low seniority while he built up his flight time as a pilot. I realized I really just wanted to be a wife and mother - but I did not realize this until I realized I wanted to be HIS wife, and mother to HIS children. And he realized that his huge career plans/lifelong dreams really did nothing to compare to wanting to be MY husband, and father to MY children. He wanted to provide for us in a manner that meant being at home for dinner every night. And hopefully he would like what he did. Which led him to grad school in labor and industrial relations. Turns out, he's pretty good at it.

      I think my main point in sharing this is that we both took paths that brought us to the right place and time for it all to finally become clear - that is, that we found our true vocation of being married to each other and creating a family together. We each have additional subset vocations of being a homeschooling mother, and a labor professional. And it happened in the order that was right for us. I know from experience that trying to plan out for a child how that will go for him or her would be impossible - because nobody would have 'planned' the route I took!

      Instead, what we try to do for our children is to keep as many options open for as long as possible until he or she knows for certain what each next step should be. Because each step they take will end up closing a door (even temporarily) on other options. I have also realized lately (from the other thread about high schoolers) that a large part of this is helping them answer those five questions Melissa listed - or something close to that. We did help our oldest with it, but our son has different things he is considering, which is making us have to learn a whole new question/answer process.

      As far as how we do that, the best advice I received the first time around was from our dear friend who was the chaplain at the Newman center U of I while we were there, and who is now president of a small Catholic college. When I asked him about our daughter, he said that the first question she should ask herself is what she believes her vocation to be. Then, how can she best answer that call given the school options available. I actually just got off the phone with him again after discussing our son and he said that for young people who don't yet know for certain what that vocation is, the best degrees they can get should be something that helps them think, write, and do research. They may need some kind of technical training for certain fields (like engineering) but generally speaking, getting those areas covered will mean they can do just about anything. Philosophy is actually a fantastic degree to have in that respect. (Which brings us back to the classical liberal arts, of course!). This is what both dh and I saw in our own lives as well...we both have modern LA's degrees, but LA's nonetheless. This is what gave both dh and I the flexibility to respond when our paths changed upon meeting each other.

      And a final note about debt, both of us are on the same side when it comes to the idea of debt. They know up front they will have to pay for it themselves, and we will help if we can. They will be aware of the costs involved in their various decisions, and whether or not their amount of debt is reasonable. What we consider as reasonable will depend on what they plan to do, how much the debt will be, and how quickly it can be paid back by the career they could realistically have. I agree that $20-25K seems reasonable and probably the minimum amount to expect unless you are able to have them pay-as-you-go, or they somehow get a full ride. That works out to about $5,000 per year, which is the magic number we kept coming across in the financial aid packages we received for what they expect young people to take out as loans even if they are getting a lot of aid. I would expect someone with higher earning potential to be able to exceed, even double that without concern in the right career fields. It's all about certainty that you will actually enter the workforce in a lucrative field, whether there is a likely certitude you will be able to stay in that field, and whether the base pay is enough to pay it back even if your life situation (aka family) changes. My dh had debt, but we always lived well below our means and paid it back early. And he came out of school with a career - one that had direction - that is, as his family situation changed, his career was able to keep pace.

      As for the arts, well, we have come close on those decisions as well. For one child, she has been able to identify a path that is reasonable, can give her a career that fits in with her primary vocation, without incurring a great deal of debt (at least, that's how the plan looks right now.) But she will also have a central degree that is flexible because it comes from a LA's school. So, in that case, passion, hobby, career, school, debt - it all came together. I think it can be done. But for our son, he has a music talent that could either pull him to pursue it full-time, or be one of those "hobbies you spend four years on." Which is a bit riskier for someone who may need to be a breadwinner. This is one of those situations where that "tough words" conversation Melissa described would be necessary. If he had eaten, breathed, slept music for the majority of his youth, and was ready to enter school with the expectation of reaching the professional level, I would encourage exploring the outcome he wants from it in closer detail. But in the absence of the ability to truly be great at it, the risk of it being a professional hobby is too high, in which case I think the best advice is to find a career path at a school where you can continue the music on the side.

      Tough life lessons, to be sure. A bit rambling, but more to add to the conversation, I hope.

      AMDG,
      Sarah


      2020-2021
      16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
      DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
      DS, 17
      DD, 15
      DD, 13
      DD, 11
      DD, 9
      DD, 7
      +DS+
      DS, 2

      Comment


        #33
        My husband and I mentor young couples in our home church and from them I've made the following observation: what debt you are taking on needs to be considered when potentially marrying someone else with equal or even more debt. Whereas one person may feel comfortable with $X thousand dollars out of college/grad school, that may be doubled or tripled when they get married. Yes, there are potentially two wage earners and no kids for about one year to start. Still, it's baggage you are bringing into your future relationships. I see many young people with master's degrees that are unnecessary for their field and they carry the accompanying debt. Multiply that times two and you have a mortgage-sized payment long before you own a house.

        I'm definitely not saying that debt should not be on the table if it's a good fit for the kid and a good value for the product. I loved your points above, Jen. This is going to be very personal for every family and situation. I did just want to add that angle of "Your debt may be someone else's debt someday. Think on that, Padawan, as you school through the sparkling collegiate websites."

        To me, college is both a product and a service. It should be worth (value) the price. If there is debt that has to be taken on, is the amount such that the student can earn it during the 4 years of school with on-campus or part time work off campus? If yes, bonus.

        I think most everyone saw the recent new of the commencement speaker at Morehouse who paid off the graduating class' student loans. What I did not hear where questions along these lines:
        How many people are in that class? Just under 400.
        How did one graduating class amass $40 million dollars worth of student loans? The tune of about 100K/person.
        That doesn't take into consideration those of the 396 grads who didn't have loans, only those who did.
        Festina lentē,
        Jessica P

        2020-2021
        11th year HSing · 9th year MP
        @ Home, HLN, & Latin online
        11th, 9th, 6th, 3rd

        Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Mom2mthj View Post

          Does UT Dallas guarantee freshman housing for 4 years? I have a friend from Baylor who is a chem professor there that has talked up UT Dallas as has my sister in Ft. Worth. I didn’t know housing was a problem for transfers.
          I do not know. I do know from asking that returning students are a first priority, then international kids, and lastly transfer kids. They make housing decisions very late for non- freshmen, as well. I was told August the last week to drop classes to get all the tuition money back. That is just unacceptable for us.
          The Homeschool Grads:
          J- 6/96
          S- 11/98

          Still Homeschooling:
          G- 4/04
          D- 5/05
          F- 7/08 (my only girl)

          Future Homeschooler:
          M- 9/16

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
            But for our son, he has a music talent that could either pull him to pursue it full-time, or be one of those "hobbies you spend four years on." Which is a bit riskier for someone who may need to be a breadwinner. This is one of those situations where that "tough words" conversation Melissa described would be necessary. If he had eaten, breathed, slept music for the majority of his youth, and was ready to enter school with the expectation of reaching the professional level, I would encourage exploring the outcome he wants from it in closer detail. But in the absence of the ability to truly be great at it, the risk of it being a professional hobby is too high, in which case I think the best advice is to find a career path at a school where you can continue the music on the side.


            For your son, you will definitely want to consider The Catholic University of America. Not only is it the only American Catholic university with a papal charter (hence the "The" in the title), it's music program is world class. If he can get IN to the Benjamin T Rome music department, he might have a shot at music as a career.

            https://musicschoolcentral.com/top-1...ic-schools-us/


            And, you know, CATHOLIC, with the Basilica of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception as the, er, "school chapel".




            Seriously, our experience with CUA has been outstanding.




            Jen
            DS, 27 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace)

            DS, 25 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

            DD, 22 yrs, graduated from The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC; 2nd grade teacher.

            DS, 12 yrs, 8th grade; attends a private classical school, 7th - 12th.

            All homeschooled for some/all of their K-12 education.

            Me: retired after 16 years of continuous homeschooling. Ahhh....

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Jen (formerly) in Japan View Post


              For your son, you will definitely want to consider The Catholic University of America. Not only is it the only American Catholic university with a papal charter (hence the "The" in the title), it's music program is world class. If he can get IN to the Benjamin T Rome music department, he might have a shot at music as a career.

              https://musicschoolcentral.com/top-1...ic-schools-us/

              And, you know, CATHOLIC, with the Basilica of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception as the, er, "school chapel".
              Seriously, our experience with CUA has been outstanding.

              Jen
              Definitely one we are seriously considering. All their pianos are his favorite kind. Checks a lot of boxes for him. So we will see. Glad to hear that it has been a great experience for your daughter!
              AMDG,
              Sarah
              2020-2021
              16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
              DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
              DS, 17
              DD, 15
              DD, 13
              DD, 11
              DD, 9
              DD, 7
              +DS+
              DS, 2

              Comment


                #37
                KF2000 thank you so much for fleshing this out. You said what I meant far better than I ever could! See below:

                Originally posted by KF2000 View Post

                My parents told us they would pay for us to go wherever we wanted. I was good in school, so I got catalogs from everybody, and though how cool it would be to see where I could get in. But then I realized there was an application fee for each one. So I chose to only apply to U of I (because we were a family of Illini) and Notre Dame (because we thought it was a Catholic school - that's how little we knew about such things despite 12 years of Catholic school). Got in to both. But I won a National Merit Scholarship, which U of I would take (making me basically pay room and board), but ND would not. In my book, this was an easy decision, made solely on cost. I also really didn't know what I wanted to do, so I started out in the College of Commerce, switched to LA's because I detested Economics, and used all my electives to be considered pre-med. My plan was to either go to med school or law school - I couldn't really decided which - so I also interviewed with banks and consulting firms based in Chicago. I graduated with honors in 3.5 years - and STILL DID NOT KNOW what I wanted to do.

                BOTH of us made radical changes to our "plans of life" (or in my case, lack thereof) as soon as we met each other. He realized he loved flying, but that it would years of crazy hours and low seniority while he built up his flight time as a pilot. I realized I really just wanted to be a wife and mother - but I did not realize this until I realized I wanted to be HIS wife, and mother to HIS children. And he realized that his huge career plans/lifelong dreams really did nothing to compare to wanting to be MY husband, and father to MY children. He wanted to provide for us in a manner that meant being at home for dinner every night. And hopefully he would like what he did. Which led him to grad school in labor and industrial relations. Turns out, he's pretty good at it.

                I think my main point in sharing this is that we both took paths that brought us to the right place and time for it all to finally become clear - that is, that we found our true vocation of being married to each other and creating a family together. We each have additional subset vocations of being a homeschooling mother, and a labor professional. And it happened in the order that was right for us. I know from experience that trying to plan out for a child how that will go for him or her would be impossible - because nobody would have 'planned' the route I took!
                Yes! I was definitely coming at this from a liberal arts background. With a liberal arts school, you have to be really discerning about the quality and orthodoxy of what is being taught and that sometimes means being willing to pay more/use loans. With specialized degrees (STEM, etc), you already know that the general ed side will likely have some orthodoxy and/or quality problems. In those situations, I guess you would have to weigh the quality of the general ed against the quality of the degree program itself.

                Regardless of the degree being sought, when all other things are equal, I do think it would be more prudent to go with the lesser cost option (after considering grants, scholarships, etc from both). But then, you also have to take into consideration the child and how their temperament would fit in with the school. I could have gone to Franciscan and received federal aid, but the size and culture of the school would have been a bad fit for me. I needed something small and tight-knit.

                Quality, value, cost, and culture fit are majorly intertwined in these decisions. I think my concern is when cost seems to be the deciding factor to the detriment or outright exclusion of the others.

                Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
                Instead, what we try to do for our children is to keep as many options open for as long as possible until he or she knows for certain what each next step should be. Because each step they take will end up closing a door (even temporarily) on other options. I have also realized lately (from the other thread about high schoolers) that a large part of this is helping them answer those five questions Melissa listed - or something close to that. We did help our oldest with it, but our son has different things he is considering, which is making us have to learn a whole new question/answer process.

                As far as how we do that, the best advice I received the first time around was from our dear friend who was the chaplain at the Newman center U of I while we were there, and who is now president of a small Catholic college. When I asked him about our daughter, he said that the first question she should ask herself is what she believes her vocation to be. Then, how can she best answer that call given the school options available. I actually just got off the phone with him again after discussing our son and he said that for young people who don't yet know for certain what that vocation is, the best degrees they can get should be something that helps them think, write, and do research. They may need some kind of technical training for certain fields (like engineering) but generally speaking, getting those areas covered will mean they can do just about anything. Philosophy is actually a fantastic degree to have in that respect. (Which brings us back to the classical liberal arts, of course!). This is what both dh and I saw in our own lives as well...we both have modern LA's degrees, but LA's nonetheless. This is what gave both dh and I the flexibility to respond when our paths changed upon meeting each other.
                This is so encouraging to read as it's what we have done so far with both of our boys. They're our oldest two so you always wonder if you're doing it right or just experimenting

                Our oldest has always struggled academically but he has really come into his own and continues to apply himself diligently (he's 16 so he has his moments *ahem* but overall he works very hard). That being said, he does NOT want four more years of school after high school. He loves working with his hands (wood turning, auto mechanics, etc) and really feels drawn to auto mechanics as a career.

                Obviously, this doesn't require college and we've always told the kids that college is not a requirement; but we've also told them that it's wise to at least have a liberal arts degree. MBentley this goes back to what you were saying about "credentials". Neither my husband nor I completed our degrees and this made it very difficult to get a job when the recession hit. They didn't care what your degree was in, they just wanted to see BA or BS on your resume. We've told the boys that quality liberal arts studies will help them regardless of what they choose to do while the "credential" will give them a backup plan job-wise.

                My oldest's current plan is to attend an auto mechanics program at our vo-tech as his 11th and 12th grade elective. At the end of the program he will have almost all he needs to sit for the ASE exam which would then enable him to enter the industry at a higher pay level. But he told me that it will also help him decide if it's really what he wants to do professionally.

                He will be continuing a basic college prep high school track (basic as in no AP subjects or advanced math/science). He will sit for the PSAT and SAT. This way, if he reaches 12th grade and decides that mechanics isn't for him, he will still have options for college.

                And that leads me to MBentley's question: what do you do with a child who doesn't know what they want to do? It also relates to @KF2000's note about the arts:

                My second oldest is a solid student and really likes the idea of college; but he doesn't have any idea what he wants to do afterwards. His initial idea was to major in Fine Arts (drawing, painting, and possibly studio art). We helped him look into it, but did tell him that he would be better off apprenticing with other artists. Unless you intend to go into museum curation or academia, you don't need a college degree to be a well-respected artist — my in-laws have proven that for the past 40 years. (It was hard, but a Fine Arts degree wouldn't have changed that. A different degree for side work probably would have helped, but not a BFA.)

                Eventually, we found out that the only reason he was looking at Fine Arts degrees was because he didn't know what else he would do! That's when I told him that the liberal arts would be his best bet as it would open up multiple possibilities for him without locking him into one thing. As we investigated this more, he learned that he could major in Classics. He still doesn't know what he wants to "do" with it, but that's where his heart is right now and I know that there are plenty of options for him after that course of study.

                So, I guess that's a long way of saying I would encourage a liberal arts degree for anyone who doesn't know what they want to do in life, or for anyone who might not need a degree for their chosen profession but would like to have a credential (with substance behind it) as a backup plan.


                Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
                And a final note about debt, both of us are on the same side when it comes to the idea of debt. They know up front they will have to pay for it themselves, and we will help if we can. They will be aware of the costs involved in their various decisions, and whether or not their amount of debt is reasonable. What we consider as reasonable will depend on what they plan to do, how much the debt will be, and how quickly it can be paid back by the career they could realistically have. I agree that $20-25K seems reasonable and probably the minimum amount to expect unless you are able to have them pay-as-you-go, or they somehow get a full ride. That works out to about $5,000 per year, which is the magic number we kept coming across in the financial aid packages we received for what they expect young people to take out as loans even if they are getting a lot of aid. I would expect someone with higher earning potential to be able to exceed, even double that without concern in the right career fields. It's all about certainty that you will actually enter the workforce in a lucrative field, whether there is a likely certitude you will be able to stay in that field, and whether the base pay is enough to pay it back even if your life situation (aka family) changes. My dh had debt, but we always lived well below our means and paid it back early. And he came out of school with a career - one that had direction - that is, as his family situation changed, his career was able to keep pace.
                This is a great way to judge these considerations! And it applies to those who are seeking specialized degrees as well.

                Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
                As for the arts, well, we have come close on those decisions as well. For one child, she has been able to identify a path that is reasonable, can give her a career that fits in with her primary vocation, without incurring a great deal of debt (at least, that's how the plan looks right now.) But she will also have a central degree that is flexible because it comes from a LA's school. So, in that case, passion, hobby, career, school, debt - it all came together. I think it can be done. But for our son, he has a music talent that could either pull him to pursue it full-time, or be one of those "hobbies you spend four years on." Which is a bit riskier for someone who may need to be a breadwinner. This is one of those situations where that "tough words" conversation Melissa described would be necessary. If he had eaten, breathed, slept music for the majority of his youth, and was ready to enter school with the expectation of reaching the professional level, I would encourage exploring the outcome he wants from it in closer detail. But in the absence of the ability to truly be great at it, the risk of it being a professional hobby is too high, in which case I think the best advice is to find a career path at a school where you can continue the music on the side.
                Completely agree. See my notes above about my second oldest!

                Jennifer
                Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                DS16: MP, MPOA, HSC, Breaking the Barrier French
                DS15: MP, MPOA, HSC
                DS12: Mash-up of 6/7M
                DS11: SC 4
                DD9: 3A with First Form Latin (long story!)
                DD8: Mash-up of SC 1/2
                DD5: January birthday, using SC B and C as a two-year JrK

                Comment


                  #38
                  Agreeing with you on a degree (any degree) as a gateway to an interview. One of my friends is a HR VP and when her stack of resumes is tall she sorts by degree, then looks through. She usually tosses everyone without a master's. Other friends with no degrees at all have hit rough patches when life circumstances demanded they get interviewed to get hired. In a big city they didn't even get a call back. Any good job they got was always because of a direct personal connection. No degree at all may or may not be a hurdle, but that is a consideration.

                  Jen, I like your perspective on LA precisely for someone who doesn't have a direct path planned.
                  Festina lentē,
                  Jessica P

                  2020-2021
                  11th year HSing · 9th year MP
                  @ Home, HLN, & Latin online
                  11th, 9th, 6th, 3rd

                  Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
                    Agreeing with you on a degree (any degree) as a gateway to an interview. One of my friends is a HR VP and when her stack of resumes is tall she sorts by degree, then looks through. She usually tosses everyone without a master's. Other friends with no degrees at all have hit rough patches when life circumstances demanded they get interviewed to get hired. In a big city they didn't even get a call back. Any good job they got was always because of a direct personal connection. No degree at all may or may not be a hurdle, but that is a consideration.

                    Jen, I like your perspective on LA precisely for someone who doesn't have a direct path planned.
                    I'm super scattered today, but I meant to mention that I really appreciated your insight on bringing debt into a marriage. It definitely needs to be part of the full consideration.
                    Jennifer
                    Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                    DS16: MP, MPOA, HSC, Breaking the Barrier French
                    DS15: MP, MPOA, HSC
                    DS12: Mash-up of 6/7M
                    DS11: SC 4
                    DD9: 3A with First Form Latin (long story!)
                    DD8: Mash-up of SC 1/2
                    DD5: January birthday, using SC B and C as a two-year JrK

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by jen1134 View Post

                      I'm super scattered today, but I meant to mention that I really appreciated your insight on bringing debt into a marriage. It definitely needs to be part of the full consideration.
                      Totally agree as well. We have known our fair share of couples for whom that is a major problem as well.

                      AMDG,
                      Sarah
                      2020-2021
                      16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
                      DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
                      DS, 17
                      DD, 15
                      DD, 13
                      DD, 11
                      DD, 9
                      DD, 7
                      +DS+
                      DS, 2

                      Comment


                        #41
                        I'm still rin adding through everyone else.

                        I had a summer semester immediately after high school at North Georgia College and State University, lonely place. I then went to Reinhardt College, now University,a small Methodist school on the edge of nowhere in the north GA mountains. My degrees are pre-nursing and a BA in Religious Studies. I went onto Emory Nursing School for a short time before kids and a move that changed everything. I started teaching at a cottage Classical Education School and life directions changed drastically! My Enginerd went to Georgia Tech for Mechanical Engineering.

                        Other in in my family is College of Charleston - BA Literature, Georgia State - Masters in English Literature, Edinburgh - Masters and PhD in Women's Literature (of the 18th? Century), University of Georgia - Poly Sci., Furman - Poly Sci. (And here my sister found Catholicism.), She went on to Fulbright and Fletcher. She's a SAHM homeschooling 7. Then GT - Electrical Engineering, Emory - English.

                        We we are a long way off, but I was trying to see information today. My daughter wants to be a Nature Conservationist and I'm trying to map out what I should put an emphasis on beyond basics.
                        Margaret of Georgia, in west TN – Enginerd’s wife and Mama

                        2019-2020/-2021 · Homeschooling since 2011.
                        Trekking along at a student self-pace...
                        DD Summer 2009 · 5th/6th + BS3&4
                        DD Summer 2011 · SC4/SC5*6 + BS3&4
                        DS Summer 2014 · K/SC2 + SL P + K
                        DD Summer 2017 · Pre + SL T
                        DS Autumn 2019 • Baby

                        Memoria Scholé Academy
                        Blog: Creative Madness Mama
                        @ CherryBlossomMJ

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Margaret, Have you read this article by Mr. Cothran on knowing nature?

                          https://www.memoriapress.com/article...gered-species/

                          It's actually about how scientists rarely know nature personally and intimately. At her age I would suggest the nature studies from MP and learning the nature around her personally and intimately--all your local trees, birds, bugs, reptiles, mammals, amphibians, flowers, etc. I can think of no greater place to begin than by knowing and loving nature itself. When she's older I'd give her Wendell Berry to read.
                          Festina lentē,
                          Jessica P

                          2020-2021
                          11th year HSing · 9th year MP
                          @ Home, HLN, & Latin online
                          11th, 9th, 6th, 3rd

                          Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Sarah, something your son might be interested in taking a look at is the Music Technology at PFW. http://catalog.pfw.edu/preview_progr...&returnto=1454

                            If nothing else, he would enjoy checking out the facility at Sweetwater Sound if you haven't been there yet. I'm not sure how far you are from Fort Wayne, Indiana.
                            Bean. Long time MP user. I usually post before my coffee is finished. I apologize in advance for my typos and grammatical mishaps.

                            DD 10th: Aerospace enthusiast. All AP & dual enrollment courses for 20-21.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by bean View Post
                              Sarah, something your son might be interested in taking a look at is the Music Technology at PFW. http://catalog.pfw.edu/preview_progr...&returnto=1454

                              If nothing else, he would enjoy checking out the facility at Sweetwater Sound if you haven't been there yet. I'm not sure how far you are from Fort Wayne, Indiana.
                              Thanks for the ideas, Bean!

                              AMDG,
                              Sarah
                              2020-2021
                              16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
                              DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
                              DS, 17
                              DD, 15
                              DD, 13
                              DD, 11
                              DD, 9
                              DD, 7
                              +DS+
                              DS, 2

                              Comment


                                #45
                                jen1134

                                If your child, or anyone for that matter, is interested in learning how to make a real living in the arts outside of academia, this is something. https://www.patreon.com/Lachri

                                I stumbled upon this funny lady a few years ago when I got into a "I'd like to learn to paint" kick...Anyways, yes, she paints/draws, etc. However, she makers her income mainly on PATREON. She will create 2+ hr videos every week, specifically explaining how she is creating a particular painting. She loves photorealism. You can see a sped up version on Youtube for free, but if you want the long details, the specific paints, the techniques, and even quite a few free stock phots, you can be a patron and get this.

                                I think this is relevant because she demonstrates how to be in this field and yet technically run an independent business and all that entails. Yes, she sells her paintings, but her income is seemingly in being a mentor to others on the patreon site. She didn't get a degree either. It's outside the box thinking, but very worth the attention for a kid considering an art career.
                                Last edited by MBentley; 06-07-2019, 06:57 PM.
                                Melissa

                                DS (MP3) - 9
                                DS (MP2) - 7/8
                                DS (K) - 6
                                DD (Adorable distraction) 2 1/2

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