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    Introductory Physics

    For those of you who have used Novare Introductory Physics, how much parent involvement is needed? I am neither a math nor science person and would like to know if he can do the course on his own in 9th grade next year because I can't teach it. He has a basic conceptual understanding of physics from The Rainbow Science and Exploring the World of Physics, which is what he did last year.
    DS, 13, 8th grade
    DS, 10, 5th grade

    #2
    Re: Introductory Physics

    I am teaching Intro to Physics for our little co-op this year. The book is very easy to read and the material is clear. (So far any way..we are at Chapter 5.) If the student is math-savy, it might work out fine. There are many sample problems in-text and the solution manual covers all of the homework problems. The appendices give a lot of guidance too.
    How do you plan to handle experiments? I see that as a harder problem to address.
    The cd has a fairly clear lesson plans, although not MP’s level of completeness (much better than the one included with Novare’s Earth Science if you have experience with that). It is geared for a classroom teacher so it would take some work to apply it to a home, single student setting.

    If your student is not math-savy, I would look for someone who can work with him/her. The conversions are doable once you get the concept down, but can be a struggle. It is non-vector math (ie. much easier) but there is a lot of it.
    Regards,
    Hollie

    2018-19:
    4 family co-op using MP materials
    DD & DS - 9th: MPOA: TFL, Algebra I, Ref/Con; Novare Intro to Physics, 9th Lit, Light to the Nations I
    DS - 6th
    DD - 6th with a backtrack to SC3 phonics/spelling/reading
    DD - 5A, 5th Lit.
    DD - 2nd
    DS - 3yrs - pre-school when he will sit still
    Using MP complete since 2016-17; bits and pieces for many years previous

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Introductory Physics

      Sugarbelle,
      What is his current level of math and what will he be doing next year? IP is Algebra-based and Algebra 1 students are doing ok with it, though our Algebra 2 students have an easier time. This is just what we've seen at our cottage school this year. We are recommending all ninth graders take IP.
      Festina lentē,
      Jessica P

      2018-2019 · 7th MP Year, 9th Homeschooling
      Interweaving home, cottage school, & MPOA
      DS · MPOA Henle 2, 9A -- DD · 7A -- DD · 4A -- DS · 1st

      Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School
      www.nashvillelatinschool.com

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Introductory Physics

        Hi Jessica,

        You probably know this, but the newer thinking on science sequencing is:

        Intro Physics (9th)
        Biology (10th)
        Chemistry (11th)
        Something advanced (such as an AP class) - (12th)


        The above would be the "regular sequence". Advanced science students would start the same sequence in 8th, adding an additional advanced class in 12th, depending on graduation requirements OR college goals. An engineer-to-be's science sequence will look different from a med school-to-be's sequence, which would look different from an English major's sequence.

        This sequence is different from the one taken by those of us who went to public high school in the 80's (or 90's). The newer thinking is that by offering non-vector physics first, the students practice applying algebra skills and learn how physical science works. Biology gives a year for the students to continue gaining MATH knowledge. The entire pivot point of the sequence is to take chemistry only as the student will have learned enough math, and have developed his math intuition enough, to apply it to chemistry. High school chemistry demonstrates the student's ability to apply math. Any science after chemistry is "student's choice", meant to meet graduation requirements or interest.

        By encouraging your 9th graders to take Intro to Physics in 9th, they are tracking with PS peers. Good call.


        Jen
        DS, 25 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace), following in the family tradition of working for the US Navy

        DS, 23 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, working on Adulting

        DD, 20 yrs, Junior in Education at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC

        DS, 11 yrs, 6M plus Bookshark's Later American history pack

        All homeschooled.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Introductory Physics

          Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
          Sugarbelle,
          What is his current level of math and what will he be doing next year? IP is Algebra-based and Algebra 1 students are doing ok with it, though our Algebra 2 students have an easier time. This is just what we've seen at our cottage school this year. We are recommending all ninth graders take IP.
          He is in pre-algebra right now, so will be doing Algebra 1 next year. I would love to sign him up for MPOA IP, but the prerequisite is Algebra 1, although the Novare website says to take them concurrently.
          Last edited by Sugarbelle; 12-17-2018, 09:25 AM.
          DS, 13, 8th grade
          DS, 10, 5th grade

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Introductory Physics

            Originally posted by Sugarbelle View Post
            He is in pre-algebra right now, so will be doing Algebra 1 next year. I would love to sign him up for MPOA IP, but the prerequisite is Algebra 1, although the Novare website says to take them concurrently.
            Hi Sugarbelle,

            Thanks for posting! I wanted to chime in here to tell you why MPOA recommends Algebra I prior to Introductory Physics and Novare says it is acceptable for students to take them concurrently.

            1. Algebra I is a point where students either struggle or excel (there is a spectrum, of course). If a student isn't demonstrably strong in Algebra then the Physics class will be very, very difficult to complete. In this situation, it means that students end up having two new subjects, both of which can feel like they are drowning if they aren't demonstrably strong in Algebra I.

            2. The first year or two we followed the Novare recommendation with MPOA, it went very badly. This doesn't mean their recommendation is off, it just means that their recommendation is geared toward schools that are meeting each day, face-to-face, and very different from the online academy setting. We meet twice per week, at a distance, and of course the teachers can offer extra help in some cases, but it creates several challenges all at once that can be difficult to overcome. The first time we offered Physics and allowed students to take Algebra I concurrently, almost down to the student, those who were taking it concurrently really, really, really struggled (I could throw in another 'really' )

            Since we implemented the policy of requiring Algebra I and a solid A or B, as a prerequisite, we have seen a lot of improvement with the level of understanding and quality of work submitted by Introductory Physics students.

            I hope this helps explain some of the differences!

            Scott Piland
            Director
            Memoria Press Online Academy
            onlineacademy@memoriapress.com
            (877) 745-8866

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Introductory Physics

              Thank you all for your responses. Since MPOA isn't an option, do you think it might work out doing it at home with algebra help from my husband, who has the math brain? He has no background in physics, though. My son is very bright and understands concepts quickly, if that matters. Where he struggles is with paying attention to details, but he's slowly getting better in that area. The experiments might pose a problem, though, if someone in the house needs a background in the subject in order for them to be done correctly.

              I guess another option is Novare Physical Science since MPOA won't be an option for IP. I see it is for 6-8th grade, but is in the 9th grade core. After a quick look at the table of contents, it seems to cover much of what he has done in The Rainbow Science, which is a two year science curriculum. I just don't want him to repeat the same material, unless it's much more in depth. I also have him read the Tiner science books that correspond to the semester topics. How rigorous and in depth is the material in Physical Science?
              DS, 13, 8th grade
              DS, 10, 5th grade

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Introductory Physics

                Is there a reason to take physics this year instead of just waiting until next year? Something like biology might be a great science to do next year while he focuses on Algebra, and then do physics the next year after that.

                Algebra will require him to get better at paying attention to detail...there are areas with so many steps that will require more precision.

                And physical science is probably going to not be enough of a change from what he has done. The Novare text is great, but I would not describe it as something going “in depth.” It does what it should - gives an overview of physics and chem, and does it well. But I would look at trying to get a different high school science done while he gets his math skills going.

                AMDG,
                Sarah
                2018-2019
                DD 17 - 12th || DS 15 - 10th || DD 13 - 8th || DD 11 - 6th || DD 9 - 4th
                DD 7 - 1st || DD 5 - mix of 1st & JrK || +DS, 2-21-16+ || DS 11 months (and walking!)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Introductory Physics

                  Originally posted by Sugarbelle View Post
                  I guess another option is Novare Physical Science since MPOA won't be an option for IP. I see it is for 6-8th grade, but is in the 9th grade core.
                  Good morning,

                  May I ask where you're seeing that Novare Physical Science is for grades 6-8? At HLS Indianapolis, our science teacher found that 8th graders could complete this course, but it was a struggle for them even with the guidance of a master teacher such as herself. Homeschooling families who used Novare Physical Science in 8th also reported that it was difficult. For the homeschooling parent with little or no science background, Novare Physical Science will be plenty challenging enough for a 9th grader. All that being said, you may still choose not to use it based on the reasons Sarah gave.

                  HTH!
                  Michael
                  Memoria Press

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Introductory Physics

                    Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
                    Is there a reason to take physics this year instead of just waiting until next year? Something like biology might be a great science to do next year while he focuses on Algebra, and then do physics the next year after that.
                    Hi Sarah! I was planning on following Novare's recommended high school science sequence, which starts with Introductory Physics.
                    DS, 13, 8th grade
                    DS, 10, 5th grade

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Introductory Physics

                      Originally posted by Michael View Post
                      Good morning,

                      May I ask where you're seeing that Novare Physical Science is for grades 6-8? At HLS Indianapolis, our science teacher found that 8th graders could complete this course, but it was a struggle for them even with the guidance of a master teacher such as herself. Homeschooling families who used Novare Physical Science in 8th also reported that it was difficult. For the homeschooling parent with little or no science background, Novare Physical Science will be plenty challenging enough for a 9th grader. All that being said, you may still choose not to use it based on the reasons Sarah gave.

                      HTH!
                      Hi Michael! I saw grades 6-8 on the Novare website, but I will go with what MP has found to be more appropriate.
                      DS, 13, 8th grade
                      DS, 10, 5th grade

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Introductory Physics

                        Originally posted by Sugarbelle View Post
                        Hi Sarah! I was planning on following Novare's recommended high school science sequence, which starts with Introductory Physics.
                        Right back at you, Sugerbelle!

                        Well, the thing about following the recommended sequence is that when you get to high school level courses, you do look at the suggested order, and you also consider their math placement, but THEN you also should keep in mind what your student will want to be able to include before college.

                        If your son spends a year in Physical Science, that will take up educational capital in his high school years. There will only be three more sciences he can realistically take - which should be Physics, Chem, and Bio. If those are sufficient for him to get into the college program or post-high school plans that he wants, then it might be a good option for him.

                        But if he wants to enter a program that is more science-based or a more competitive school, or some other scenario like that, he might not want to spend the year on PS so that he has time to do Physics/Chem/Bio and still have time for an advanced science. Given what your son has done already, it would seem like moving on would give him the most options.

                        The great thing about Biology is that it is the non-math-dependent science, so it makes a great filler year. You get it out of the way while working on catching math up to where you need it to be. (My apologies to anyone who takes that as a slight against the value of biology 😆 as I personally love it)

                        AMDG,
                        Sarah
                        2018-2019
                        DD 17 - 12th || DS 15 - 10th || DD 13 - 8th || DD 11 - 6th || DD 9 - 4th
                        DD 7 - 1st || DD 5 - mix of 1st & JrK || +DS, 2-21-16+ || DS 11 months (and walking!)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Introductory Physics

                          Originally posted by Jen (formerly) in Japan View Post
                          Hi Jessica,

                          You probably know this, but the newer thinking on science sequencing is:

                          Intro Physics (9th)
                          Biology (10th)
                          Chemistry (11th)
                          Something advanced (such as an AP class) - (12th)


                          The above would be the "regular sequence". Advanced science students would start the same sequence in 8th, adding an additional advanced class in 12th, depending on graduation requirements OR college goals. An engineer-to-be's science sequence will look different from a med school-to-be's sequence, which would look different from an English major's sequence.

                          This sequence is different from the one taken by those of us who went to public high school in the 80's (or 90's). The newer thinking is that by offering non-vector physics first, the students practice applying algebra skills and learn how physical science works. Biology gives a year for the students to continue gaining MATH knowledge. The entire pivot point of the sequence is to take chemistry only as the student will have learned enough math, and have developed his math intuition enough, to apply it to chemistry. High school chemistry demonstrates the student's ability to apply math. Any science after chemistry is "student's choice", meant to meet graduation requirements or interest.

                          By encouraging your 9th graders to take Intro to Physics in 9th, they are tracking with PS peers. Good call.


                          Jen
                          Jen,

                          You are obviously more up to date on this...my question is do kids taking calc based physics still stick in another physics like we took in 11th? The IP is not the same as that. IP uses only algebra, unlike the “old” sequence of bio, chem, physics (w. Trig), and AP physics (w calc). If you were to take AP Chem you would have had a solid year of chem before AP. I don’t see the sequence above providing as solid a background for those wanting AP physics. I never did anything equivalent to IP in 8th grade....most of my middle school science in public school was an utter waste of time.
                          Dorinda

                          DD 15 - 10th with MPOA(Biology, Novel, Material Logic/Rhetoric ), Lukeion (Greek3, Latin 3)
                          DS 13 - 8A with MPOA(Third Form and composition)
                          DS 10 - 5M
                          DS 5 - K with AAR3

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi Dorinda,
                            Have you looked at the AP Physics sequence lately? There are now 4 AP Physics tests: Physics1 (algebra-based), Physics2 (algebra-based), Physics C Mechanics (calculus-based) and Physics C E&M (calculus-based). There is a helpful summary at PrepScholar (see below), and you can go to the AP website for specific scope and sequence. Obviously, most high school students will not take 4 years of physics (need biology and chemistry in there!) and few will be ready for the calculus-based courses (either already completed calculus or taking concurrently).

                            If using the Novare textbooks, Introductory Physics is great for a 9th grader taking algebra1. Then take biology with algebra2, chemistry with geometry (algebra2 already completed) and advanced physics (trig-based, such as Novare Physics: Modeling Nature, which is a very challenging course, trust me!) or anatomy and physiology with precalculus.

                            For strong math students, who completed algebra in 8th grade with an A, another option is to take biology with algebra2 in 9th, chemistry with geometry in 10th, advanced physics in 11th with precalculus, leaving time for AP Chem or AP Physics in 12th (with calculus).

                            We focus on preparing our calculus students take the AP Calculus test, but have not encouraged AP science courses. If you can find a quality on-line provider, that may be a good option for strong math and science students.

                            I hope that helps a little.
                            How do you choose which AP Physics course to take? How do you decide between AP Physics 1 and AP Physics C? Find out with our expert guide.
                            Last edited by Cindy in Indy; 12-21-2018, 11:29 AM.
                            Cindy Davis
                            Science and Math teacher at Highlands Latin School - Indianapolis
                            ds-24 college graduate: working, reading, writing
                            ds-23 college graduate: 1st year med school
                            dd-21 college junior: Nursing

                            Comment


                              #15
                              To the original poster, if your student is doing well in pre-algebra in 8th grade, then I recommend Novare Introductory Physics in 9th concurrent with algebra. I teach Introductory Physics to our 9th grade algebra students, and they do very well. The math in IP reinforces the algebra they are learning and allows them to practice their algebra skills in the context of real, physical problems. Many physicists will tell you the best way to master mathematics is to study physics.

                              If you anticipate your student to struggle in algebra1, then taking Novare Physical Science in 9th will provide a buffer year while waiting for the math skills to come along. However, it will limit the upper level of science your student can complete in high school, so be careful of that. If you have advanced physics (trig-based) in your sights for 12th grade, then IP is the better preparation.
                              Cindy Davis
                              Science and Math teacher at Highlands Latin School - Indianapolis
                              ds-24 college graduate: working, reading, writing
                              ds-23 college graduate: 1st year med school
                              dd-21 college junior: Nursing

                              Comment

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