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Successful switch to MP in 10th grade?

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  • tehwrd
    replied
    Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
    Hi Tammy! Welcome to MP as well!
    Jessica has given you great pointers to start out, and I wanted to add some thoughts because we also use Homeschool Connections for some of our high school subjects. I don't know if you use live classes, or if you have chosen the recorded class option. We use the recorded classes because it is extremely economical for our family. So that is how I am basing my suggestions. We use the recorded option too!

    When I am planning things out, I usually begin with the basic core MP has put together, and see how we can accomplish progress in each of those main areas. Do you have the MP Magalog - The Classical Teacher - ? If not, make sure to sign up to receive it through the website. It is also available on the website, but for me, I love having the physical catalog in hand when I am planning so I can pull up HC and compare the two at the same time. I do get the Magalog! I'm not sure I have the most recent one because we moved a few weeks ago.

    Here is how I would go through the list of the core content areas:
    1. Latin. You said your daughter is doing the Wheelock's class on HC. From that, you have the benefit of a teacher, but you have the disadvantage of the fact that Wheelock's is a course designed for college students, is not as logically presented as Henle, and is therefore quite a bit more challenging than Henle. My suggestion to you is that since you are right at the beginning, and you expect to have a full two years to go, I would switch to Henle. In that two years, your daughter should be able to get through all of Henle Year One - which is the bulk of the Latin grammar and will set her up well to keep going in college, or at least feel a sense of accomplishment for how much she was able to do. Memoria Press has two guides that walk you through Henle I, and these are excellent. They give the daily breakdown of work, as well as explanations in addition to what is already in the textbook. Lastly, I just noticed that HC added classes in Henle this year, so those classes are supposed to be added to the options for recorded classes this spring (any time now). So she could follow along with the class, and use the MP guide as well, and she should have more than enough help. Should I start her with Henle I after doing the beginning Latin with Wheelock, or would you suggest I switch her to Henle now? Would you recommend the DVDs for Henle or just going through it with her myself?

    2. Christian Studies. I have found it very difficult to have my high schoolers complete something from MP's Christian Studies path as well as cover Catholic Theology courses. So we have opted to either use courses from HC for this, or to use one of the full-year Didache courses from Midwest Theological Forum. They are excellent. And for more exciting news...HC is adding recorded courses of the Didache books this spring also...yay! We used Didache Introduction to Catholicism - just on our own. I wonder if she would like them better with the HC class? I'll consider that. I wondered if MP's Christian Studies plus Catholic Theology would be too much. She's not a strong student and she doesn't love school at all, so overwhelming her is a fast track to disaster!

    3. Composition. I agree with Jessica's recommendation that you look at doing the high school series of classes with MPOA. The Classical Composition program is excellent, and well worth the time/effort/money it takes to learn it. This is the one area I am going to push for my 10th grader to do with MPOA next year too because it is so hard to give it ample time these days. I got to briefly sit in on one of the sessions at Sodalitas last year and the instructor was amazing. Thank you for this! After two votes for MPOA and Classical Composition, I will definitely look into it. We struggle mightily with writing and I suspect that she will do better for someone who is not me!

    4. Classical Studies / Literature. I have grouped these two together because, again, this is something I have found from experience with my high schoolers is that they seem to end up overlapping a great deal in terms of how much time we have. How much you accomplish here will really depend on how strong your daughter is at reading and writing. If this is an area of strength for her, I would say go ahead and try to keep a strain of each going each year. But if that seems to overwhelming, I would suggest combining them into a single stream and do it well rather than spread yourself (that is, her) too thinly. And what you do would depend on what she has done already. Also, I know HC has courses that you could line up to help her tackle the "biggies." So you could have her do them through HC, or through MP, whichever seems to be the better choice for her. But the suggested path is:
    - The book of the Ancient Greeks; Iliad, Odyssey;
    -The Book of the Ancient Romans; Aeneid;
    -Greek Plays
    -Divine Comedy
    -Cicero's On Obligations & The Laws (I added that as that is what we do next)

    Now, how you could manage to do that is to use the Mill's Books (or HC history classes) to cover the Ancients in history, and use the Iliad, the Odyssey, and the Aeneid as her literature selections.
    Then for year 2, you could do a Modern European History progression, and use the Divine Comedy (either with MP or HC) as her literature.
    That would get you the bulk of the greatest options available in just the two years that you have. She is actually doing HC courses for Ancient/Greek/Roman history as well as Iliad. Odyssey, and Aenid - she will be through those before the start of her 11th grade year. In light of that, how would you structure 11th & 12th grades?

    But as Jessica mentioned, you would also want to keep in mind what requirements you have for Kansas in order to graduate high school. And what she has done already. If the Ancients and those great books are things she has already covered, let us know and we can help you come up with another two years of ideas. Or see below for more ideas about history, specifically.

    5. Logic. MP's initial two courses for Logic, Traditional Logic I & II, are great, and are available on HC, too. So you would be set for her to take those. I usually include them in English though, which, if she is doing an online composition class, you might find that to be time-filling enough. So I would not stress over trying to fit this into your timeframe. It would be good to do, but is not absolutely essential either. This is good information. She gets easily overwhelmed, and then she just shuts down. I would really like for her to take these, so I'll see how that goes!

    6. Math/Science. You probably know where she is for these. But I can offer suggestions if you need them. We have used both MPOA and HC for science, and have been really happy with each. Math we have always done on our own, using the books recommended by MP, and my kids have done well. We are good with her math, but science is up in the air. We're trudging through Apologia Biology right now and it is definitely NOT something we love.

    7. History. This would depend on what she has done/not done yet. (see above with Literature ideas). MP offers a two-year course of American history, and a two-year course of Modern European History. Their guides break each textbook up over two years, but are really just study guides with questions to answer. It is difficult to make them into a "full" course unless you are reading along and able to discuss them well with your child. MPOA would be another good option here, as they have excellent courses for these, or HC does as well. We have not done a US or modern history class yet, so we definitely need to get those in.

    If what she needs to do is cover Modern European history in one year, and American history in the second, I would recommend having a class to help her go at that pace. It's just so much material to cover, that trying to read and digest that much will be a real challenge. Having a teacher be able to highlight was is essential so that there is actually a valuable learning experience will be better than trying to cover everything. I would look at the options from MPOA and HC, weigh your costs, and choose accordingly. I had not thought about how helpful a class would be for getting through these. I will look into our options.

    I hope that is a start that will generate ideas for you as you plan. I am so glad you have found MP, and hopefully we can give you some advice to get started. Don't forget that MP offers individual lesson plans for any of their subjects in high school, so that can be a real help in planning as well. For example, if you got the LP for Classical Studies for the Greek and Roman books, it would help you decide how to plan each - just going at a faster pace! Yes, I did this with my youngest but haven't even gotten a class list for my high schooler yet.

    God bless,
    AMDG,
    Sarah
    Thank you so much for taking the time to give me your thoughts!

    Leave a comment:


  • tehwrd
    replied
    Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
    My friend Angel is fond of saying, "It's never too late to get a great education!" Yes, there are definitely things your 10th grader can enjoy over the next few years in high school. To find out exactly what, I would recommend calling MP directly to talk through her background and see which MP things align with your vision of her remaining high school years as well as compliment your state's graduation requirements. By high school, almost zero MP students are still in a complete core. There are many things to choose from: literature sets, classical studies, composition, logic, etc. One heads up I will give you is that she might be interested in the accelerated Classical Composition Sequence through the Memoria Press Online Academy (link below). This sequence would allow her to work through about 8 of the 14 levels in the next two school years.

    With limited time, you have to go after a few of the very best things and put out of mind all the things you've "missed." It is OK. Secondary education is not the end of learning. If I had two years of high school to work with, I would add:
    • Latin (stick with what you have or consider Henle 1 either at home or with MPOA)
    • the two year sequence of Ancient Greeks/Iliad/Odyssey and Ancient Romans/Aeneid (this is the backbone of classical learning) She is working through Greek/Roman History and Iliad/Odyssey/Aenid this year with Homeschool Connections - would that change your suggestion here?
    • two years of Logic (Traditional 1 & 2, then Material and Classical Rhetoric)
    • a few of the literature selections each year (there are more than any of us can complete in high school!)--including at least one Shakespeare.
    • For composition, I recommend the MPOA High School Comp 1 & 2 option. I am definitely going to look into this! Thank you!
    • If you are already chugging along with math and science, there's no need to make adjustments. She does like her math program but is not a fan of her science, Apologia, and honestly neither am I. I'm curious about MP's science offerings.

    Please keep us posted as you think things through and make decisions. I've seen first-hand what a few years of MP can do in a high schooler's education. Truly, it's never too late.
    Thank you so much! My rising 5th grader seems simple! My rising 11th grader is giving me some anxiety!

    Leave a comment:


  • pickandgrin
    replied
    Holly,
    "Plan backward" is great advice!

    Leave a comment:


  • HollyS
    replied
    My oldest has switched to MP for 10th grade. She is currently using 8M with a few changes. We settled on First Form Latin, which means she may not get through Fourth Form, but I like to cover math and Latin year round, so we’ll just keep plugging away and get as far as we can. We are doing the accelerated pace of two Classical Composition books per year, so she should get through book 6. I’ve found it helpful to “plan backwards” for high school. I decided 10M seemed like a great place to end high school, and we are striving to finish there. We won’t quite get there for Latin and Composition, and I may sub out a few things like literature books or Christian studies. I know I want her to get to rhetoric and Divine Comedy, so I’ll have to make some substitutions.

    Leave a comment:


  • KF2000
    replied
    Hi Tammy! Welcome to MP as well!
    Jessica has given you great pointers to start out, and I wanted to add some thoughts because we also use Homeschool Connections for some of our high school subjects. I don't know if you use live classes, or if you have chosen the recorded class option. We use the recorded classes because it is extremely economical for our family. So that is how I am basing my suggestions.

    When I am planning things out, I usually begin with the basic core MP has put together, and see how we can accomplish progress in each of those main areas. Do you have the MP Magalog - The Classical Teacher - ? If not, make sure to sign up to receive it through the website. It is also available on the website, but for me, I love having the physical catalog in hand when I am planning so I can pull up HC and compare the two at the same time.

    Here is how I would go through the list of the core content areas:
    1. Latin. You said your daughter is doing the Wheelock's class on HC. From that, you have the benefit of a teacher, but you have the disadvantage of the fact that Wheelock's is a course designed for college students, is not as logically presented as Henle, and is therefore quite a bit more challenging than Henle. My suggestion to you is that since you are right at the beginning, and you expect to have a full two years to go, I would switch to Henle. In that two years, your daughter should be able to get through all of Henle Year One - which is the bulk of the Latin grammar and will set her up well to keep going in college, or at least feel a sense of accomplishment for how much she was able to do. Memoria Press has two guides that walk you through Henle I, and these are excellent. They give the daily breakdown of work, as well as explanations in addition to what is already in the textbook. Lastly, I just noticed that HC added classes in Henle this year, so those classes are supposed to be added to the options for recorded classes this spring (any time now). So she could follow along with the class, and use the MP guide as well, and she should have more than enough help.

    2. Christian Studies. I have found it very difficult to have my high schoolers complete something from MP's Christian Studies path as well as cover Catholic Theology courses. So we have opted to either use courses from HC for this, or to use one of the full-year Didache courses from Midwest Theological Forum. They are excellent. And for more exciting news...HC is adding recorded courses of the Didache books this spring also...yay!

    3. Composition. I agree with Jessica's recommendation that you look at doing the high school series of classes with MPOA. The Classical Composition program is excellent, and well worth the time/effort/money it takes to learn it. This is the one area I am going to push for my 10th grader to do with MPOA next year too because it is so hard to give it ample time these days. I got to briefly sit in on one of the sessions at Sodalitas last year and the instructor was amazing.

    4. Classical Studies / Literature. I have grouped these two together because, again, this is something I have found from experience with my high schoolers is that they seem to end up overlapping a great deal in terms of how much time we have. How much you accomplish here will really depend on how strong your daughter is at reading and writing. If this is an area of strength for her, I would say go ahead and try to keep a strain of each going each year. But if that seems to overwhelming, I would suggest combining them into a single stream and do it well rather than spread yourself (that is, her) too thinly. And what you do would depend on what she has done already. Also, I know HC has courses that you could line up to help her tackle the "biggies." So you could have her do them through HC, or through MP, whichever seems to be the better choice for her. But the suggested path is:
    - The book of the Ancient Greeks; Iliad, Odyssey;
    -The Book of the Ancient Romans; Aeneid;
    -Greek Plays
    -Divine Comedy
    -Cicero's On Obligations & The Laws (I added that as that is what we do next)

    Now, how you could manage to do that is to use the Mill's Books (or HC history classes) to cover the Ancients in history, and use the Iliad, the Odyssey, and the Aeneid as her literature selections.
    Then for year 2, you could do a Modern European History progression, and use the Divine Comedy (either with MP or HC) as her literature.
    That would get you the bulk of the greatest options available in just the two years that you have.

    But as Jessica mentioned, you would also want to keep in mind what requirements you have for Kansas in order to graduate high school. And what she has done already. If the Ancients and those great books are things she has already covered, let us know and we can help you come up with another two years of ideas. Or see below for more ideas about history, specifically.

    5. Logic. MP's initial two courses for Logic, Traditional Logic I & II, are great, and are available on HC, too. So you would be set for her to take those. I usually include them in English though, which, if she is doing an online composition class, you might find that to be time-filling enough. So I would not stress over trying to fit this into your timeframe. It would be good to do, but is not absolutely essential either.

    6. Math/Science. You probably know where she is for these. But I can offer suggestions if you need them. We have used both MPOA and HC for science, and have been really happy with each. Math we have always done on our own, using the books recommended by MP, and my kids have done well.

    7. History. This would depend on what she has done/not done yet. (see above with Literature ideas). MP offers a two-year course of American history, and a two-year course of Modern European History. Their guides break each textbook up over two years, but are really just study guides with questions to answer. It is difficult to make them into a "full" course unless you are reading along and able to discuss them well with your child. MPOA would be another good option here, as they have excellent courses for these, or HC does as well.

    If what she needs to do is cover Modern European history in one year, and American history in the second, I would recommend having a class to help her go at that pace. It's just so much material to cover, that trying to read and digest that much will be a real challenge. Having a teacher be able to highlight was is essential so that there is actually a valuable learning experience will be better than trying to cover everything. I would look at the options from MPOA and HC, weigh your costs, and choose accordingly.

    I hope that is a start that will generate ideas for you as you plan. I am so glad you have found MP, and hopefully we can give you some advice to get started. Don't forget that MP offers individual lesson plans for any of their subjects in high school, so that can be a real help in planning as well. For example, if you got the LP for Classical Studies for the Greek and Roman books, it would help you decide how to plan each - just going at a faster pace!

    God bless,
    AMDG,
    Sarah
    Last edited by KF2000; 01-19-2019, 09:29 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tehwrd
    replied
    Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
    My friend Angel is fond of saying, "It's never too late to get a great education!" Yes, there are definitely things your 10th grader can enjoy over the next few years in high school. To find out exactly what, I would recommend calling MP directly to talk through her background and see which MP things align with your vision of her remaining high school years as well as compliment your state's graduation requirements. By high school, almost zero MP students are still in a complete core. There are many things to choose from: literature sets, classical studies, composition, logic, etc. One heads up I will give you is that she might be interested in the accelerated Classical Composition Sequence through the Memoria Press Online Academy (link below). This sequence would allow her to work through about 8 of the 14 levels in the next two school years.

    With limited time, you have to go after a few of the very best things and put out of mind all the things you've "missed." It is OK. Secondary education is not the end of learning. If I had two years of high school to work with, I would add:
    • Latin (stick with what you have or consider Henle 1 either at home or with MPOA)
    • the two year sequence of Ancient Greeks/Iliad/Odyssey and Ancient Romans/Aeneid (this is the backbone of classical learning)
    • two years of Logic (Traditional 1 & 2, then Material and Classical Rhetoric)
    • a few of the literature selections each year (there are more than any of us can complete in high school!)--including at least one Shakespeare.
    • For composition, I recommend the MPOA High School Comp 1 & 2 option.
    • If you are already chugging along with math and science, there's no need to make adjustments.

    Please keep us posted as you think things through and make decisions. I've seen first-hand what a few years of MP can do in a high schooler's education. Truly, it's never too late.
    Thank you so much! I have really gone back and forth on whether switch to MP was a good idea. I will call MP and see what they recommend. Thank you so much for your suggestions - they are immensely helpful as I look at what we have done. I wish I had made the switch years ago, but since I didn’t, we are moving forward from here.

    Leave a comment:


  • pickandgrin
    replied
    My friend Angel is fond of saying, "It's never too late to get a great education!" Yes, there are definitely things your 10th grader can enjoy over the next few years in high school. To find out exactly what, I would recommend calling MP directly to talk through her background and see which MP things align with your vision of her remaining high school years as well as compliment your state's graduation requirements. By high school, almost zero MP students are still in a complete core. There are many things to choose from: literature sets, classical studies, composition, logic, etc. One heads up I will give you is that she might be interested in the accelerated Classical Composition Sequence through the Memoria Press Online Academy (link below). This sequence would allow her to work through about 8 of the 14 levels in the next two school years.

    With limited time, you have to go after a few of the very best things and put out of mind all the things you've "missed." It is OK. Secondary education is not the end of learning. If I had two years of high school to work with, I would add:
    • Latin (stick with what you have or consider Henle 1 either at home or with MPOA)
    • the two year sequence of Ancient Greeks/Iliad/Odyssey and Ancient Romans/Aeneid (this is the backbone of classical learning)
    • two years of Logic (Traditional 1 & 2, then Material and Classical Rhetoric)
    • a few of the literature selections each year (there are more than any of us can complete in high school!)--including at least one Shakespeare.
    • For composition, I recommend the MPOA High School Comp 1 & 2 option.
    • If you are already chugging along with math and science, there's no need to make adjustments.

    Please keep us posted as you think things through and make decisions. I've seen first-hand what a few years of MP can do in a high schooler's education. Truly, it's never too late.

    Leave a comment:


  • tehwrd
    started a topic Successful switch to MP in 10th grade?

    Successful switch to MP in 10th grade?

    Hello! I am switching my 4th grader to MP next month. I’m debating whether or not it would work well to switch my 10th grader. She is currently taking a beginning Latin class through Homeschool Connections using Wheelock’s. I am looking for input on whether it’s even realistic to make that kind of switch at this point and if so, what might be recommended. We just moved and will be doing school throu the summer after taking a bunch of time off.
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